Talk:Cardiff English

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Hi there, Colacho here. I edited this page not long ago with regard to two words. Neither the use of "dap" or "tidy" can be thought of as restricted to Cardiff. As a child in Neath in the 60s "dap" was the only word ever used in Neath for plimsoll, while "tidy" is a generic valleys and south east Wales term for something being great or "sound". ColachoColacho (talk) 20:44, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Colacho. 'Dap', 'tidy' and 'lush' are not exclusive to the city; maybe they once were and have spread, but if so it was a significant time ago and should be identified as such. Other features listed as Cardiff-specific seem to relate to other parts of South Wales as well. Importantly, there is no mention of the Welsh language influence - e.g. the use of the æ sound is common in other parts of South East Wales and is linked to the ancient Gwenhwyseg dialect of Welsh. (See http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwenhwyseg, no English article yet). Any linguists out there who can clear up this article? :) Huwbwici (talk) 20:43, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm from Barry and I can't believe that anyobne from England would mistake a Cardiff accent for a valleys one! We used to use a lot of Welsh expressions like ych-y-fi and cwch - do these get used in Cardiff too? What about usages such as red sauce, baps (for bread rolls) and 'a scissors' or 'a shears'? All the 'Cardiff' words are Barry ones too. The East-end of Barry (Gibbonsdown) has a lot of sounds near to Cardiff, but as kids we used to mimic 'keardiff' voices. Wasn't "'Ark, 'ark, a lark in Cardiff Arms Park!" Frabnk Hennesey's jingle, back in the day? The Yowser (talk) 08:55, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article refers to the accent of the Valleys being 'more strongly Welsh'. I suggest this is taken out - what makes the Valleys accent more 'Welsh' than the Cardiff accent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richardnosworthy (talk • contribs) 17:59, 1 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Differences from Standard English[edit]

This section contains some serious errors, and needs rewriting - that's what I'm going to do.

Vowels

Common differences of the Cardiff accent from Standard English or Received Pronunciation include:

The realization of /ɪə/ by [øː]^[1]^[2]
- here /hɪə/ pronounced [hjøː] or [jøː] in broader accents
A more open pronunciation of /ʌ/ as in love and other^[2]
/ɑː/ is widely realised as [æː], giving a pronunciation of Cardiff /ˈkɑːrdɪf/^[3] as Kaddiff [ˈkæːdɪf]

Received Pronunciation	Cardiff English	Received Pronunciation	Cardiff English
ɑː	æ	Cardiff [ˈkɑːdɪf]	Kaddiff [ˈkæːdɪf]
ɒ	ɑ	hot [ˈhɒt]	aht [ˈɑt]
ɑː	a(ː)	bath [ˈbɑːθ]	baath [ˈbaːθ]
ɪ	iː	happy [ˈhæpɪ]	apee [ˈapiː]
ɛə	ɛː	square [ˈskwɛə]	squeh [ˈskwɛː]
ɔː	ʌː	thought [ˈθɔːt]	thuhht [ˈθʌːt]	Rounded vowels may be pronounced as unrounded in broader accents^[1]
ɜː	øː	nurse [ˈnɜːs]	nuus [ˈnøːs]	The mid central unrounded vowel /ɜː/ may be realised as a rounded front vowel [øː] in middle-class varieties^[1]

Consonants

/k/ and /x/, the latter found in Welsh words as 'ch', are used interchangeably when using a Welsh word in English^[1]
- Mynachdy as [məˈnaxdiː] or [məˈnakdiː]
-ing [ɪŋ] realised as -in [ɪn] at the end of a word^[1]
- singing /ˈsɪŋɪŋ/ as singin [ˈsɪŋɪn]
/ð/ is often omitted^[1]
- that /ðæt/ as at [at]
/w/ as in sweet may be realised without lip-rounding, making it closer to a velar approximant [ɰ]
Aspiration is stronger in the stressed syllables of /p/, /t/, and /k/^[1]
Glottalisation is weaker, especially in broader forms of the accent; that is the pronunciation of /t/ between two vowels or the last letter after a vowel at the end of a sentence^[1]
- kitten /ˈkɪtən/ as ki-uhn [ˈkɪʔn]
/h/ may be dropped from words, as in some other urban accents of English.^[4]
- human /ˈhjuːmən/ as yuman [ˈjuːmən]
/tj/ and /dj/ are usually realised as [tʃ] and [dʒ]^[1]
- tube [ˈtjuːb] as chube [ˈtʃuːb] ('ch' as in 'church', not 'sh')
Wasn't /ˈwɒzənt/, and similar words such as doesn't and isn't, may be realised with a [d] under the influence of a nasal vowel rather than [z], producing [ˈwɑdn̩] or just [ˈwɑn].^[1]
A final /ts/ cluster is sometimes realised as [s]^[1]
- It's dead is realised as iss-ded [ɪs ˈdɛd]
- He gets chips as he gess chips [hiː ɡɛs ˈtʃɪps]
Final pre-consonantal /t/ and /d/ may be dropped^[1]
- started collecting as starteh collecting [ˈstaːtɪ kəˈlɛktɪn]

Main differences from other Welsh variations of English[edit]

Common differences that are unique to the Cardiff accent, and not widely found in other varieties of Welsh English include:

/ɑː/ is often realised as the more open [æː] in words like are, hard and Cardiff. This can give a quite iconic local pronunciation of Cardiff Arms Park^[2]
Open-mid back vowel /ʌ/ is realised as the more central vowel [ɜ]
/l/ before vowels, /j/, and dark [ɫ] is pronounced clearer than in other South Wales varieties, 'breaking' rather than rolling into the following word^[1]
Vowels are generally closer to Received Pronunciation in Cardiff English than in other Welsh varieties, but with a tighter inner lip rounding^[1]

Examples[edit]

Cardiff pronunciation	IPA	Received pronunciation	IPA
C'm year^[5]	[ˌkm̩ ˈjøː]	Come here	[ˌkʌm ˈhiə]
Clack's pie^[5]	[ˌklæks ˈpaɪ]	Clark's pie	[ˌklɑːks ˈpaɪ]
Aw-righhh^[5]	[ˈɔraɪ]	Alright	[ɔːlˈraɪt]
Merm^[5]	[ˈmɜːm]	Mum	[ˈmʌm]
Fatha^[5]	[ˈfæðə]	Father	[ˈfɑːðə]
Haff a lagga or a pint of Dack?^[5]	[ˈæf ə ˈlæːɡə ɔr ə ˈpaɪnt ə ˈdæːk]	Half a lager or a pint of Dark?	[ˈhɑːf ə ˈlɑːɡə ɔːr ə ˈpaɪnt ɒv ˈdɑːk]

Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:37, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h ⁱ ^j ^k ^l ^m ⁿ Collins & Mees (1990).
^ ^a ^b ^c Accents and dialects of the UK: Cardiff Accessed 2 March 2010
^ Jones, Daniel (2003) [1917], English Pronouncing Dictionary, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, ISBN 3-12-539683-2 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |editors= ignored (|editor= suggested) (help)
^ Cite error: The named reference Cardiff English was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f Cite error: The named reference Computers to learn Cardiff accent was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[FOOTNOTECollinsMees1990-1] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f ^g ^h ⁱ ^j ^k ^l ^m ⁿ Collins & Mees (1990).

[Cardiff_accent-2] Accents and dialects of the UK: Cardiff Accessed 2 March 2010

[3] Jones, Daniel (2003) [1917], English Pronouncing Dictionary, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, ISBN 3-12-539683-2 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |editors= ignored (|editor= suggested) (help)

[Cardiff_English-4] Cite error: The named reference Cardiff English was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Computers_to_learn_Cardiff_accent-5] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f Cite error: The named reference Computers to learn Cardiff accent was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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