Talk:Sikorski–Mayski agreement

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What was signed on 30th July 1941?[edit]

In “The Pattern of Soviet Domination” by Stanislaw Mikolajczyk it states on page 17 “In the pact which Sikorski signed with Maisky in London on July 30, 1941, the Russians renounced the territorial changes in Poland previously recognised in the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939.” Further it states Russia agreed to restore diplomatic relations, form a Polish army in USSR and “amnesty” for Polish citizens. Jniech (talk) 16:05, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also in "The Fate of Poles in the USSR 1939~1989" by Tomasz Piesakowski it states on page 73 "On 30 July, 1941, after the ratification of the Polish-Soviet agreement known as the Sikorski-Maisky agreement". The name is spell slightly different but appears to support a different date for this agreement. Can anyone comment on these issues? Thanks. Jniech (talk) 11:35, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In “Poland in the Second World War” by Jozef Garlinski page 106-110 deal with the pact. Again this book supports earlier talks and a signing on 30th July. Unless someone puts references supporting the existing dates, I plan to rewrite using the material I have including the earlier dates. Jniech (talk) 16:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As previous informed, I have altered the article to use different dates. As I still do not understand the existing dates I have used 10 references to support the new dates. Let me know if you disagree. I plan to expand the article soon but want to check my initial contribution is alright with everyone Jniech (talk) 05:14, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article I think is now in-line with the books I have read. I would like to expand the article slightly, reference up a few things and reword parts but it basically matches my understanding of the events. Does anyone disagree with the changes I have made? I won’t do any major edits for a week to see what the other editors of the article think. Jniech (talk) 13:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you able to read Russian - here an intresting source which dealed with Poles in USSR [1] [2] (scroll it)- exact numer of deported, imprisoned, POW, released , killed, death rate etc Deportation number, plans of Beria for Poles-based military formation in 1940 - etc. All with exact figures from NKVD reports and Beria-Stalin correspondenceJo0doe (talk) 08:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly I do not know Russia. I will see if I can find a a friend willing to translate. Is there anything about the Sikorski-Mayski Agreement? Even if not I would love to know what it says. Thanks for the links. Jniech (talk) 22:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Try a google :) Yes in it (a second one) all about timeline of Sikorski-Stalin "friendship" story from 30 July 1941 till summer 1943 and full story with figures and dates for Anders ArmyJo0doe (talk)

Requested move 16 December 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Sikorski–Mayski agreement be renamed and moved to Sikorski–Mayski Agreement.

result:
No consensus. See no agreement below either to rename this article as proposed or to change the spelling of the Soviet diplomat's name. As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their arguments and try again in a few months to garner consensus for these title changes. Thanks and kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Editing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 20:10, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Sikorski–Mayski agreement → Sikorski–Mayski Agreement – Standard capitalisation. Move over redirect. Colonies Chris (talk) 19:25, 14 December 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. Colonestarrice (talk) 19:54, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The results in Google Scholar seem to be more-or-less evenly split between capitalizing and not capitalizing. Since only titles "consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources" are capitalized, I feel a deeper dive at WP:RM would be useful here. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:32, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Similarly oppose per WP:SENTENCECASE and the non-consistent capitalisation in sources. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 04:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Vaticidalprophet 04:37, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What makes this capitalization standard? It is just a descriptive name, not a formal title. And why the odd spelling of Ivan Maisky’s surname, which doesn’t look like any standard romanization of Russian? —Michael Z. 14:20, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- We don't necessarily go by any standard romanization of Russian in the case of someone famous enough to have significant coverage in English, as is the case with Ivan Mayski. Andrewa (talk) 10:07, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Sikorski–Maisky agreement (with en dash), which appears to be a more common spelling and caps of both the deal[3] and name of Ivan Maisky.[4] It also corresponds to modified LOC romanization of Russian, while the current spelling appears to be a Polish transcription. —Michael Z. 16:31, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per my comment above: sources are inconsistent at best, so we default to the lowercase form per MOS:CAPS etc. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:44, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I have no opinion on Maisky vs. Mayski: my oppose is limited to the proposal to capitalize "agreement". Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support proposal by Michael above, per ngrams. BilledMammal (talk) 04:31, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.