Talk:Roger de Montgomery

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Untitled[edit]

Some controversy exists as "Sussex Archaeological Collections Relating to the History and Antiquities of the County vol 47" provides evidence of the Earls presence at the Battle of Hastings. As well, Neil Ludlow author of "Pembroke Castle" stated Roger de Montgomery commanded the right flank of the Norman Army. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.102.13.253 (talk) 01:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The section on ancestry is not consistent with the references from the Medieval Lands project: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMAN%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc254886762 The actual connections/relations with the de Crépon family should be different. Ambivaline (talk) 14:50, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

His presence at the Battle of Hastings, seems to be based on Wace's account, which is contradicted by the account of Orderic. http://patp.us/genealogy/conq/montgmry.aspx Nothinheavy (talk) 02:10, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Monty of Alamein?[edit]

When General Montgomery invaded Normandy, it was said that he was returning in the steps of his ancestor who had arrived in England with the Conqueror. Was Roger the ancestor of the same Montgomery family? Valetude (talk) 17:19, 2 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I believe there was a Welsh clan on his estate, who changed their name to Montgomery, and then became vassals to the Scottish Royal House of Stewart, eventually moving to Scotland. It was these who were among the planters of Ulster under James I, and were ancestors of Monty's family. Valetude (talk) 22:13, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry[edit]

I have removed the tree as it is almost entirely in doubt. Contemporary records show Roger (II) as son of Roger (I). Robert of Torigni instead makes him son of an otherwise unknown Hugh de Montgomery by Josseline, daughter of Osbert and Wevia, sister of Gunnora. Scholars have tried to make sense of this three different ways: 1) that Robert just got the name wrong, and Roger (II) was son of Josseline by Roger (I), not Hugh; 2) that Robert dropped a generation in the male line, and instead of being son of Josseline by Hugh, he was son of Josseline by Roger (I) son of Hugh; and 3) that Robert dropped an entire generation, and Roger (II) was son of Roger (I), in turn son of Hugh and Josseline, (this seems the preferred reconstruction by recent scholars, but all present it as a hypothesis and not a certainty). Hugh's parentage is entirely unknown (indeed he himself is only known from Robert of Torigni calling him father of Roger), and the earliest generation show, another Roger, was made up centuries later. As to Josseline's parentage, Robert calls her daughter of Osbert by Gunnora's sister Wevia, but a letter written at abotut the same time as Robert's writings instead calls her daughter of another sister, Senfria. Thus, we only know for certain that 1) Roger (II) was son of Roger (I), 2) that he was descended from Josseline, as either son or grandson, and 3) that Josseline was niece of Gunnora, but we can't be certain about the mother. Neither of the latter two can be represented in a tree so we are left with an Ancestry that can only definitively place his father, not worth having. 50.37.123.210 (talk) 16:03, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Montgomeryshire?[edit]

There is no mention of this county or the county-town that gave it its name. Presumably this was one of Sir Roger's extensive holdings. Valetude (talk) 12:41, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roger Montgomery's family seat was Saint-Germain-de-Montgommery, in France. It is probable that Mongomeryshire took it's name from this rather than the other way round. William I gave Roger the title Earl of Shrewsbury as well as lands in both England and Wales (including what became Montgomeryshire). Supposedly they named his stone castle in Wales Montgomery Castle, then the local village and eventually the county itself in 1535. Wilfridselsey (talk) 18:16, 30 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]