Talk:Naseem Hamed

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Hamed vs. Hameed[edit]

I agree that Hamed is the commonly used name but Hamed is indeed wrong translation of his name. Hamed is حامد in Arabic while Hameed is حميد. There are significant amount of sources that use "Hameed". Can we add to the lede something like, "also known as 'Naseem Hameed'"? Or "sometimes spelled 'Naseem Hameed'"?--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 17:59, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Odds vs Barrera[edit]

The source given for Hamed being a 3 to 1 favourite against Barrera is an article stating he was a 3 to 1 favourite against Kelley, not Barrera. These odds were recently repeated on a BBC podcast, presumably with Wikipedia as the source. Someone I know with an interest in boxing betting says it was a much closer betting contest than that (without any actual source material) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.206.131 (talk) 19:54, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

McCullough[edit]

@Bbx118: Seeing as you're intent on ignoring BRD, I'll start the discussion for you. Firstly, the record table shouldn't have any flags in at all, let alone two next to a boxer's name. Secondly, in cases where a boxer has dual nationality, the logical choice is to use the flag of the nation that they're most commonly associated with or, failing that (as is the case here), the nation where they were born, not both. Lennox Lewis has dual citizenship, but has the Union Jack; Andy Ruiz has dual nationality, but has the US flag; the vast majority of boxers from Northern Ireland have the official flag of Northern Ireland, the Union Jack. The only times I've seen two flags being used is when an editor doesn't like that their national flag isn't shown. If we're gonna use both flags in record tables, then why don't we add the US flag too? After all, he is a US citizen.

It's disputes like this that prove flags should not be used in boxing record tables. – 2.O.Boxing 19:08, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This issue was raised at the Boxing wikiproject talk page in 2017 (link) and, as with the Boxing MOS guidelines it referred back to the RFC on flags from 2015. It may be worth considering a new RFC on the topic based on if there is any change in related policies, guidelines and consensus on the issue since then. However, for McCullough the nationality used remains inconsistent across the other articles of opponents fought:
  • Óscar Larios – ROI
  • Scott Harrison – UK
  • Érik Morales – ROI
  • Daniel Zaragoza – US
  • Johnny Bredahl – UK
  • Victor Rabanales – ROI
If the flag is based on birthplace, it would be the Union Flag, if based on nation represented in competition probably ROI as he fought under this flag 4 times, only representing NI in an event where ROI was not an option. The US would be wrong (for all but the 2008 fight) based on him not having citizenship at the time of the fights. But as it appears that in his professional career, he fought as an individual rather than as a representative of a nation, and according to his article (citation needed?) he appears to have intentionally avoided any items which would define national identity, perhaps it would be appropriate for us to do the same and not use a flag either. EdwardUK (talk) 03:00, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As Bbx doesn't appear to be interested in engaging, I've reverted back to the stable version. @EdwardUK: I've considered starting a new RfC for a while now but I'm not well versed in the process. A chance to prevent these occasional flagwars once and for all would be great, though. – 2.O.Boxing 18:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

British / British-Yemeni[edit]

ActionHeroesAreReal argues that, based on [1], the "nationality" of the article subject "is both British and Yemeni" (Special:Diff/1213615662).

Mac Dreamstate disagrees, referring to MOS:IDENTITY and stating that "He's not known for being Yemeni" (Special:Diff/1213554283).

The disputed content can't be restored without a discussion here leading to a consensus for doing so (WP:BLPRESTORE). ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naseem's notability (in the arab world) relies mostly on the fact that he is Yemeni.
On his official instagram account, He uses both the flag of Britain and the flag of Yemen.
Many sources refer to him as being a "British-Yemeni boxer": [2][3][4][5] and many others.
Yemen has issued many postage stamps with him on them, providing more proof that he is notable for being Yemeni. This is one of them.
Not including that he is British-Yemeni is a clear violation of WP:NPOV Abo Yemen✉ 10:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
100% agree with what you are saying, Abo Yemen. Many reliable sources also refer to him as British Yemeni, as you have shown. The idea that “He's not known for being Yemeni”, as Mac Dreamstate states, is a categorical lie. I’m in favour of having “British-Yemeni” mentioned in the lead. ActionHeroesAreReal (talk) 13:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If the Arab world wants to "claim" him as Yemeni (as Nigeria often does for Anthony Joshua), despite him never being any other national than British, then WP:WEIGHT needs to be invoked for sources. One can bring up just as many reliable non-Arab sources stating he is British alone: "Few British boxers", "first British fighter", "British boxing legend", "British fighter's career".
"Not including that he is British-Yemeni is a clear violation of WP:NPOV" – baseless; no violation whatsoever when MOS:ETHNICITY is invoked.
Furthermore, [6] is a content aggregator; completely unreliable. [7] and [8] still do not supplant MOS:ETHNICITY, specifically Nationality examples. He has neither moved to Yemen nor was born there. We don't list Chris Eubank as British-Jamaican or Frank Bruno as British-Dominican for the exact same reason.
The easiest solution is to simply expand upon his Yemeni ancestry in the Early life section just like with all other personalities who are nationals of one country but have ancestry from elsewhere. This is the standard across thousands of articles. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 12:33, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Likewise we don't list Kal Yafai as British-Yemeni or Amir Khan as British-Pakistani, nor (to use a non-boxing example) Idris Elba as Sierra Leonean–British. This is basic stuff. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:06, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
how about we revise all of these articles too?
Abo Yemen✉ 14:19, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A wikipedia policy is a stronger argument than a manual of styles Abo Yemen✉ 14:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
plus, he himself states that he is a british yemeni.. Abo Yemen✉ 14:28, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"how about we revise all of these articles too?" – How about no. I guarantee you'll get absolutely nowhere.
"A wikipedia policy is a stronger argument than a manual of styles" – A manual of style is Wikipedia policy.
Also, per MOS:IDENTITY: "When there is a discrepancy between the term most commonly used by reliable sources for a person or group and the term that person or group uses for themselves, use the term that is most commonly used by recent reliable sources." If this means you're going to start digging up every obscure Arab-centric publication that labels him British-Yemeni, then you'll need to consider WP:WEIGHT as stated above. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 15:44, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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