Talk:Morris, Manitoba

Wikipedia is not a newspaper

The section describing racist behaviour is well written and referenced but should it be included in this article? One attempt to delete it has been reversed by User:I am One of Many and another has been reversed by User:Skol fir. I propose that the section be deleted since "Wikipedia is not a newspaper" and "Wikipedia does not report on everything going on in the world today. There is usually no need to write articles about things with no historical significance whatsoever." see 'Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a newspaper' and 'Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not'. -- Kayoty (talk) 08:37, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I have deleted the section describing racist behaviour. -- Kayoty (talk) 03:35, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I think your interpretation of Wikipedia policy is not quite correct here. What happened in Morris was covered in both Canadian and US news media. Moreover, this is a significant case of discrimination. It is not pleasant to have it associated with Morris, but we must maintain neutrality and cannot exclude it from the history of Morris because it isn't pleasant. This is especially true given the unsourced section you added "Manitoba Stampede and Exhibition". I could see moving it a separate "controversy" section, but it is very clearly a notable event for the small town of Morris. I am One of Many (talk) 05:05, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree with I am One of Many -- an event that hit the national and international news, as an ugly emergence of racist behaviour in the 21st Century, in a Manitoba town with previous history of discriminatory behaviour in the space of one year! Obviously historically significant and worthy of attention for the whole world, as an example of how NOT to behave. I reversed the disingenuous deletion of an entire referenced and relevant section by Kayoty and applied a warning to his talk page. --Skol fir (talk) 05:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Why does criticizing and deleting an irrelevant section on racism makes me "disingenuous" (synonyms: insincere, dishonest, untruthful, false, deceitful, duplicitous, lying)? Your comment: "Only someone who agrees with discrimination and wants to hide it from the public when it appears in their town would delete this section" is not correct. I have never been to Morris and I am myself often the subject of discrimination. My point is simply that the section in question should not be in the article for the reasons I have already stated. -- Kayoty (talk) 06:36, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I noticed, Kayoty, that you're from Saskatchewan, so I realize that you're probably not from Morris. However, if a well-referenced, notable and unusual event happens in any town, don't you think that is worth including in their history? It is not normal for people to ignore discrimination when it occurs. Maybe one isolated case in a year could be limited to one or two individuals, but forcing two businesses to close, citing that they were 'unwelcome' due to differences of lifestyle or colour, is another thing.

There may be one or two other towns in Manitoba that exhibit such blatant racist, homophobic, and insensitive intimidation towards business owners, causing them to close shop. I would love to add a footnote to this story that the town has now changed its ways and openly expresses disgust and opposition to the blatant discrimination. Unfortunately, as far as admitting a problem, the town's administration has been silent and in effect condones this behaviour.

So why do you, Kayoty, have a special interest in removing this information, when it fits into the verifiability criterion WP:VERIFY and is unique and historically accurate, defining some aspect of Morris which no one expected until now? Most tolerant people in Manitoba were shocked by the revelation. It certainly put Morris on the map, and as far as I'm concerned that's noteworthy of mention in its history.

So, removing such a paragraph or section shows that you're considering the information irrelevant. This was an explosive story when it happened, and the effects on the town's reputation were damaging, to say the least. Hiding it from the public, when it has become part of the Morris as we know it today is disingenuous, especially when the rule you tried to use as justification does not apply here. This is not just a catchy news item, but unfortunately a current trademark of Morris, which cannot be erased, as if nothing happened. --Skol fir (talk) 07:42, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree that fighting racism and homophobia is our moral obligation. However to attach a permanent "trademark" to a small rural community is also not justified simply because we think they deserve it or we are outraged at the ignorance of a few of its' citizens. Putting the moral issue aside, I believe the entry is not notable and not relevant to the history of Morris. Its' simply a news story like any other we hear every day. Time will tell us whether this entry (though well written and referenced) has any historical significance or is deleted again by some future editor.-- Kayoty (talk) 16:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

The unreferenced section "Manitoba Stampede and Exhibition" was not written by me, I just applied a title to the section.-- Kayoty (talk) 06:36, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Kayoty. If this is an issue about discrimination then place it under the discrimination article as an example of racial discrimination in Rural Canada. It received media attention, so what? There have probably been car accidents where people have died, possibly other crimes that are not covered here. Unless there is a section detailing all the crimes and human rights violations that have ever occurred in Morris (what would be the relevance?) then why include this one here if we aren't going to include them all? The Manitoba crime stoppers site lists lots of more current criminal actions. Many major cities have had serial killers and many other repugnant criminals do criminal things. As an example Leo Teskey and his crimes are not mentioned on the City Of Edmonton Wikipedia page. It's not a matter of hiding anything from the public, it's a matter of giving a single issue light and ignoring all the others.

Techgod (talk) 16:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

A news item (a mass murder/suicide) on the city of Edmonton page has been deleted citing Wikipedia is not a newspaper on January 2, 2015. This Morris news item is certainly less notable.-- Kayoty (talk) 05:41, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• Removed the section again. This section probably should be moved to a new page perhaps titled 'Racism in Manitoba' or in 'Racism in Canada' as an example of racism. Note also that Winnipeg was recently identified as the most racist city in Canada (here) yet no mention of this is on the Winnipeg pages perhaps because it is not notable.-- Kayoty (talk) 18:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• There are a couple of problems with removing this section. First, notability is not temporary, so this event as notable is an important part of the town's history now. Creating a separate article might be ok, but it seems like an unnecessary fork. Second, you do not have consensus to remove the material. I'm not going to revert for a while to see if some discussion can be generated. I am One of Many (talk) 18:41, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• Apparently another restaurant closed down at that location recently according to User talk:Fromyk making this event no longer notable. (old revision). Counting the number of times this event has been deleted gives me the impression that a consensus to remove the material has already been achieved.-- Kayoty (talk) 20:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

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