Talk:Luís Filipe, Prince Royal of Portugal

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Prince Royal[edit]

Shouldn't Luís Filipe's article be named Luís Filipe, Prince Royal of Portugal? Duke of Braganza is the title at that time given to the heir. But there is also Prince Royal of Portugal, a title that replaced Prince of Brazil after the South American country's independence, a it is clearly more importante that "Duke". Can someone clarify that? Joao pais 01:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article presently begins "Crown Prince Luís Filipe of Portugal", but then later says "the Portuguese monarchy lacked the position of Crown Prince". I regret that I am not expert enough in Portuguese matters to correct this. Noel S McFerran 22:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The title “Crown Prince” was never used in Portugal the correct titles are Prince Royal and Duke of Braganza Royal Braganza (talk) 20:06, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative futures[edit]

The last paragraph of this article, suggests that had Luis lived & become King Luis II of Portugal, the monarchy would've survived (atleast longer) do to his military support. This seems more of an assumption, then fact based. Perhaps that paragraph should be deleted. GoodDay (talk) 19:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

King?[edit]

Technically, wasn't Luis Filipe King of Portugal for a couple of minutes, as he was killed after his father? 95.93.137.186 (talk) 18:39, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He was theoreticaly "King for 20 minutes". That was theoretical enough that he was even in the Guinness Bokk of Records for being the shortest reign in history. I guess the record was broken in 2001 in Nepal. Anyhoo, if Luís Filipe could exist in that book, he must ne labeled as a King. --85.164.220.159 (talk) 21:48, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

At the time Portugal didn't know the system of immediate succession of the type "the King is dead, long live the King". The succession needed to be affirmed first and that of course never came to pass. So he wasn't king. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 01:56, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The constitution in force until 1910 explicitly laid down no need for affirmation for entry into the kingship. Chapter IV 'of the succession of the kingdom', Article 87 states

' His legitimate Descent will succeed to the Throne, according to the regular order of Primogeniture, and Representation . . . '

Chapter II, Article 76 states

' The King, before being acclaimed, will take the following Oath in the hand of the President of the Chamber of Peers, with both Chambers gathered together - I swear to maintain the Catholic and Roman Apostolic Religion, the integrity of the Kingdom, observe and ensure the observance of the Political Constitution of the Nation Portuguese, and more Laws of the Kingdom and provide for the general Good of the Nation, as in Me It fits. '

Note that it says "The King, before being acclaimed . . ." meaning he assumes the crown before being acclaimed. If his assumption of the crown follows the acclamation, the article would have read "The heir, before being acclaimed . . . " or The Prince Royal, before being acclaimed . . . " It doesn't. The constitution explicitly calls him "King" before the being acclaimed.

I can find no source whatsoever to substantiate your claim that succession to the crown was not automatic, based on primogeniture. The constitution in force in 1908, and the law in force at the time, says it was. Luiz Filipe is described in various sources as technically having been king, but as he died after only twenty minutes, no formal acclamation had yet taken place, and having only been king for twenty minutes he isn't listed on lists as a reigning king, but sometimes placed with an footnote saying he was king without reigning. He is counted on numerous sources as having been king on lists of shortest reigning kings, and on lists of kings who never reigned. He was technically on the throne for so short that the constitutional provision for initiating a regency for a king unable to function hadn't been triggered.

The situation seems straight forward.

1. The constitution in place in 1908 made it clear succession was by primogeniture.

2. Acclamation followed becoming king. It was not the entry point.

3. Luis Filipe wasn't acclaimed simply because he died before it could happen. As is standard in monarchies, if someone dies or abdicates before they can be formally acclaimed or crowned, you just move on and acclaim and crown the next monarch. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 03:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]