Talk:List of The Sopranos characters

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Untitled[edit]

Great job! - Tim Feb. 15, 2006 00:38

Further additions to this list may be needed (for example, Valentina, etc). --AWF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.54.154.17 (talk) 21:14, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Baccalieri played by Steve Schirripa is missing from the main table. There seems to be some confusion between Bobby Baccalieri, Bobby Baccalieri Snr and Bobby Baccalieri jnr, Im not sure which references on this page are meant for which character? Paraphrased (talk) 01:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Angelo Massagli seems to be listed against the wrong character Paraphrased (talk) 01:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Goomara or Comare?[edit]

I've noticed that several users are constantly changing goomara to comare and now to goomah. According to [1] it is always referred to as "goomara" which I think is the appropriate word. Any thoughts? Sfufan2005 22:32, 23 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think its "Goomar", not Goomah or comare. The only difference from my idea and yours is the "a" in the end. "Goomara" or "Goomar". - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 05:11, 28 March 2006
The word is spelled "comàre". In New York Italian dialect, at least, a lot of words that start with "c" get a strong "g" pronunciation. (For another example, capicola is pronounced "gabagool".) Comàre really means godmother, but it has also come to mean any female friend, and also means "gossip", which is appropriate. Kafziel 13:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The HBO website uses goomah and thats why I changed it. --M vopni 07:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal[edit]

It has been suggested that Brendan Filone should be merged into this list, under the Tertiary characters section. He only appeared in 2 or 3 episodes, which would make him a minor tertiary character, at that. He doesn't seem to meet the standards for having his own article. Please discuss here.

Support[edit]

  • Kafziel 12:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nothing about Brendan justifies having a page devoted to him, and there are many more important characters who would deserve individual pages before Brendan. HBO's character guide lists 35 players (both living and dead) who make up the principle cast for the show's six seasons, with no mention of Mr. Filone. As someone who cares about promoting an accurate account of this series, I can't accept this attention given to a menial character. All of the Brendan content suggests the pages were written not by scholars of the show, but rather by cheerleaders who should instead be writing fan pages. The Sopranos will end with 85 episodes, and Brendan will have appeared alive in 2 episodes. His dead body was seen in another. His named was mentioned in two other episodes. Those are the facts. He has next to no importance to the series as a whole. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 13:20, 7 April 2006
  • Of the characters currently listed as "teritiary", most are more important than Brendan. Some that should be beyond dispute from that list are: Raymond, Larry Boy, Elliot, Rosalie, Charmine, Angie and Agent Harris. Those characters have all dwarfed Brendan's screen time and have been involved in many more important subplots. Brendan is currently listed as a "secondary" character, putting him next to people like Vito and Hesh, which is beyond silly. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 13:25, 7 April 2006
  • Support. I am an avid fan of the Sopranos, and just popped in the season one dvd. Brendan Filone was introduced in episode two (taking part in a subplot) and was killed in the next. He was a corpse in the following episode, and barely mentioned afterwards. His role was to provide a choice for Christopher (to act like a petty thug or follow the rules of the crime family). He had no personal story arc, no character growth, nothing at all.--Orion Minor 15:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just Be Bold -- You don't have to take a vote to merge a page when there's no genuine opposition to it. The only person making a fuss about the merge was Zarbon, and he's blocked for quite a while, so this would be the time to get it done. 4.89.240.54 14:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

okay, now that i am unblocked, it's about time you got your ducks straight. the only two people who received their own cards from season one who were killed are Brendan and Mikey. Seriously, and personally, Brendan deserves his own page. All tertiary characters deserve their own pages, they should all get them. And Brendan is listed in the credits as a secondary character, not a tertiary one. I understand that you all want to pinpoint the likes of Vito and Eugene to be more important so I moved the guys I like to the bottom, but there's really no escaping the fact that they are secondary and not tertiary. All tertiary people are the ones who have no story revolving around them whatsoever. A fine example of a tertiary character would be Eliot Kupferberg, whom has done absolutely nothing. Again, Brendan is now in the very low of the secondary rank, but he still remains a secondary character because of his major importance in season one. Also, for informational purposes, Matt and Brendan are credited at the exact same level of importance. And another note, in 1999 to 2001, Brendan, Matt, and Sean were in the HBO pages as well. It's only in 2003 that they were removed for the likes of Pussy, Ralphie, and Richie. Otherwise, if the family tree gets brought back up, you are all more than welcome to see that they will be in it again on the site. And also, for informational purposes, Brendan appeared in 4 episodes (it doesn't matter whether he was dead or alive, he visually appeared) and he was mentioned in 4 other episodes after that, including in season 2. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 03:34, 19 April 2006

What major importance did he play? He stole a truck and got whacked, thats it! Nobody gave 2 shits about him by the 5th episode. And he was in 2 episodes, a clip of his dead body doesn't count.--M vopni 00:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose[edit]

  • I definitely oppose. Brendan is a main character in the first season and he is mentioned way more than Vito, etc. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 13:31, 7 April 2006
  • You've got to be kidding! Brendan had bit parts in 2 episodes and Vito has been on the show for 4 seasons now. --M vopni 15:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other suggestions[edit]

also, all the other characters who have been previously fused will be gettin their own pages shortly. The tertiary characters which i myself separated will get their own pages. Everyone will have their own page. There is absolutely no need to fuse. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 13:32, 7 April 2006

So Wesleymullins, if you think that the tertiary people will be staying fused, you are wrong. they will all be treated to their own page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.68.168.160 (talk) 13:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Saying that you're making articles for the others doesn't help your case; the other tertiary characters have one or two sentences about them here, and that's all they should have. If you make separate articles for all of them, you're just going to start another big mess like you did with The Shield, and they will end up being merged back into here anyway. As I've said before, this is not a Sopranos trivia website. If you want all of these people to have their own articles, I suggest you start your own website.
Back to the subject at hand, I understand you're a fan, but if you want to keep calling Filone a "main character" you're going to need to come up with some evidence. How many episodes was he in? What effect did he have on the overall plot of the series? No matter how big his role was, appearing in two episodes over the course of several years does not make him a main character. Kafziel 13:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
you are seriously causing trouble for me. I am going to do write ups for every single character in the series. making a mess is putting and mixing all the characters on one page. They all are deservant of pages. and so they shall have them. it's much neater and concise. There will be no need for a mixup. the page already looks better. there will no longer be any mergings here. the page will be much neater this way. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 14:12, 7 April 2006
I'm not causing trouble for you; you're causing trouble for yourself. When we were discussing The Shield, you wanted me to come look at The Sopranos. Well, now I'm here.
Putting all the characters on one page is not some idea I cooked up on my own. It is part of the Manual of Style, and it is an official policy. Please, please, please, read the guideline I have linked. I don't know how many more times I can say it. If you think those characters need more detail, add it to their spot on this list.
If you choose to make more articles for minor characters, I am not going to use the merge tags anymore. According to the guideline above, I can simply merge them without even asking you. So far I have tried to be polite and get you to understand my reasoning, but I am not required to do so. I am only a few short steps from requesting arbitration, and that will not go well for you. Please don't make me do that - read the rules, obey consensus, and stop these petty arguments. Kafziel 14:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hbo.com lists 35 characters on their website's guide. They have people who are no longer alive on the show (Tony-B, Livia, Ralphie, etc). Brendan is not on there. If you want to convince people that Brendan is more than a teritary character, come with some evidence. To say he is mentioned way more than Vito is insane. Vito has been in 34 of the show's 69 episodes. Brendan? 2. Hesh has been in 20+. Patsy has been in 25+. Those are secondary characters. But the chracters you live for don't come close to those numbers. They belong with the minor players, and below even some of them. sorry...forgot my name. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 14:56, 7 April 2006

After Brendan gets moved down to where he should be, Sean and Dino should be next. They are both VERY minor characters. I would include Matt in that list as well, but because of the new fame of the actor who played him, his character is getting a lot of coverage in the media. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 15:03, 7 April 2006

your criterion of deciding who is main and who is not is seriously moronic. it doesn't matter HOW many episodes they are in. Look at Eugene Pontecorvo for example. He appeared in like 20 episodes and he only actually played a role in one. You need to get your facts straight. Number of episodes is not what matters. The role they play is what matters. Brendan, Matt, Sean, Mikey, etc. are all main characters because they are spoken of increasingly even after their demise. These are truly the reason why the show shines. You are being comical by saying Vito is more important. So far, he has had only 2 storylines revolving around him. One where his brother got beat and he wanted action taken and the second where he was seen pleasuring a security guard. that's it. his character appeared throughout but only played a role in those instances. What you need to understand is that a character can appear in only one episode and play a bigger role than one that appears in 500. A perfect example of this is Mustang Sally Intile, who played a MAJOR role in season three regardless of being in one episode. The role they play is what matters, not the amount of episodes they are in. Remember this. Also, for anyone you feel deserves to be mentioned as a secondary character instead of a tertiary character, I would be more than happy to bring them up, depending on the role they play. Also, Kafziel, please go back to the shield pages and try to pass judgment there, because here, many people agree with the separate sections as a correct method and it is not vandalism. if you feel you want fusion of characters on one page, you can discuss it here. But do not revert based on your single opinion. Allow others to post their idea first. For example, allow Sfufan to come and leave his opinion on the matter here. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 16:19, 7 April 2006
OK, Zarbon, how about this: how is Filone important? What consequences did he have? Most importantly: what examples can you give of him having an influence on the show after he died? I have the dvds right next to me, so I can double check your examples. If his influence is so prevalent in the series, it should be easy and take one moment.--Orion Minor 16:23, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Welp, he got banned. So much for diplomacy. Shame it had to end that way.--Orion Minor 16:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious?! Lets begin with my alltime favorite character ever. This is going to be fun.

  1. Brendan Filone is one of the 2 main supporting characters of season one, the other being Mikey Palmice. How is this guaranteed? Simple. If you check the cast listing and first credited cast, you will see that Brendan and Mikey are the only two names listed in the main cast for season one.
  2. Second, simple. The newly released collector card set. Brendan and Mikey are also 2 of the only people who got killed to get their own cards. By this i am referring to the new set released by inkworks. check it out if you haven't already.
  3. His death plays a prominent role in the series. he is mentioned in 6 episodes after his demise, not including "Meadowlands", where his body is found.
  4. He appears in 4 episodes, not 2. And in the episodes that he appears, his name is placed prominently in the beginning of the credits.
  5. He is mentioned even in season 2. Chris has a dream sequence and sees Brendan and Mikey playing cards with soldiers. Want more?
  6. He is the first character in the series who actually played a ROLE and got killed. All people who were killed in season one, other than mikey, were very minor appearing. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 16:39, 7 April 2006
None of those six points makes him as important as the characters listed in the group of "secondary characters". As for Mikey, I have never said he should be removed. He's very important and even made Tony's dream 4 seasons later (because he still matters). And anyone who suggests Brendan is more important than Vito in the Sopranos world can't be taken seriously. I believe everyone has the right to an opinion; and I think everyone has a right to be wrong in that opinion.
As for "importance", I only know of one scene where Brendan is the "lead" of the scene. In all others, he takes a backseat to Chrissy, who himself is usually being dominated by Tony.
Lastly, I will say I don't have any "favorite" characters that I "live for", so I feel a little more qualified to speak to who are the actual main players on the show. As has been pointed out to Zarbon many times, his strange affection for minor characters makes him a less than ideal person to speak objectively. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 16:59, 7 April 2006

The following characters need to be nominated for merge.

  • Brendan
  • Sean
  • Matt
  • Patsy
  • Eugene
  • Jackie Sr
  • Dino
  • Benny
  • Feech
  • David
  • Anthony

We can discuss and then vote if they belong with the secondary characters (Vito, Hesh) or with teritiary characters (Larry Boy, Rosalie). If put to a vote, I would vote to merge Brendan, Sean, Dino and Anthony. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 17:44, 7 April 2006

that's your opinion. you can keep it to yourself. everyone on the show deserves a page. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 20:11, 7 April 2006
I can "keep my opinion to myself?" How is this person not banned for life? I am not the person trying to force my opinion on others. I am suggesting we open it up to discussion and then vote. You asked that the person below me be allowed to express on opinion, and that opinion is consistent with mine: your characters are not worthy of being called secondary. You should read the article on fancruft. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 21:13, 7 April 2006
What happened to this page? I spent so much time on this page and now it is really being destroyed. I put the teritary characters here for a reason because they were lacking a lengthy description about the character. Not every character deserves an individual page. I do not believe that Brendan, Dino, Anthony, Sean or Matt are secondary characers: THEY ARE TERITARY. They played important roles in 1 to 3 episodes but do not deserve individual articles. That is considered a case of fancruft. Plus most of the other characters that were on this page have now been moved to their individual pages and are not likely to be expanded. I suggest everything be moved back and please be aware of the 3 revert rule and Manual of Style since this page is becoming "mayham". Sfufan2005 20:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Here is another suggestion: if Zarbon can provide a more lengthy article for Brendan, the Brendan article can remain there. If not it should be brought there, it doesn't even have to be changed just moved. But everyone else I mentioned should be over here and remain. All the teritary characters that were on this page since the beginning should remain here unless they are first expanded in depth and then they can move but that decision isn't entirely up to me. Sfufan2005 20:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
SFU, great job on the list on this page. Once we get the people back that belong, The Sopranos character content will be better. What do you think about voting on ambiguous characters like Eugene, Benny and Patsy? I would include them all as secondary (and much more important than the Zarbon boys), but some others may not. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 21:20, 7 April 2006
So are we all definitely agreed upon that Brendan, Dino, Anthony, Matt and Sean should be redirected and moved here? Sfufan2005 01:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I say YES. My only question would be with Matt, whether or not the fame of the actor would make a difference. I have seen a lot of news stories with clips of him as Matt recently. I am unsure of how I feel about him, but I see no reason for the other 4 to have their own pages. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 04:21, 8 April 2006
I would support merges for all of them. Kafziel 05:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I moved Brendan, Dino and Anthony to this page. I'm a little unsure about Matt since as Wesley said Lillo Brancato has been mentioned a lot for his portrayal of this character. Sean, I'm not sure since he was only a sidekick. Sfufan2005 16:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

nobody seems concerned about the effect of Lilo's criminal fame on the character, so I would vote to merge them both too. However, to play devil's ad, Matt always had more lines, seemed to be the "Batman" to Sean's "Robin", lived longer, was the subject of a very important manhunt/execution and was played by a famous actor. So, I think there are legit reasons to merge "chip" and not "dale". Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 19:02, 8 April 2006

What rule should people follow on who justifies having their "first appearance" referenced? I kinda think it should only be those people listed as "secondary" and above. For instance, when I wrote the In Camelot page, I placed Fran Felstein on the list, but I now think that was probably wrong. What's the rule of thumb on that? I think it is important to have a standard, or else characters like Monk #2 could be listed. Wesleymullins — Preceding undated comment added 21:19, 8 April 2006

Dominic DiMeo[edit]

Does anyone know which episodes DiMeo was referenced in, so I can add them to his bio. Since he is an unseen character, I placed that where "played by" is shown and the episodes he is referenced in, I would also like to add. I'm pretty sure he was referenced in "Meadowlands" and "46 Long" but am still unsure. Sfufan2005 01:02, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Primary, Secondary and Tertiary[edit]

Just wondering if there are any conventions for determining who is what sort of character?

For example Toni Kalem (Angie Bonpensiero) is now in the main credits when she appears in an episode does this make her a main character or a secondary character?

As another example Katherine Narducci (Charmaine Bucco) has been listed over the opening titles for most of the shows run and is on the HBO character list. Should she be listed as secondary/main? -Opark77 (Apologies sivia1979 - I'm new to Wiki) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opark 77 (talk • contribs) 02:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC) — Preceding undated comment added 00:21, 28 April 2006[reply]

Please sign your messages. Thank You! --Siva1979Talk to me 02:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Having read the merge discussion for Brendan Filone I have identified some criteria that others seem to use:
  • Presence of a character on the main HBO character list
  • Number of episodes appeared in
  • Type of credit (opening titles/guest starring) - Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 13:05, 26 April 2006
I agree 100%. Also if the character has seniority (such as Hesh Rabkin who has been on since the Pilot). The only people that don't really deserve articles are the low key mobsters and other relatives, doctors or FBI agents who don't have a lot of backstory such as Carmela's parents, Eliott Kupfergberg or Father Phil. I'm also fine with Charmaine Bucco getting her own article since she has been on the show for a long time and has a history with Tony (aka being ex-lovers and her hatred for him for "sabotaging" their business). Sfufan2005 20:09, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK Sfufan2005 thanks for the agreement I'm not sure how to go about creating a new page but I'll have a quick try -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 20:45, 26 April 2006


Johnny Boy Soprano[edit]

Johnny Boy is currently in the blood relatives section of the list - I was wondering if he might be better placed with the mobsters. Does anyone have an opinion? -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 02:24, 26 April 2006

I think because he is related to the Soprano blood family that is where he should be. His role on the series is more of a father figure since the only way he is portrayed is through Tony's flashbacks. I mean there's no doubt that he was in the mob but that's my opinion. Sfufan2005 02:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Nomination[edit]

After extensive thinking and merging 2-9 episode appearing people, the following should also be nominated for merge:

  1. Gloria Trillo - 7 episodes
  2. Michele Feech La Manna - 4 episodes

- Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 01:18, 27 April 2006

Opposition[edit]

  • I agree that it's strange that Feech has his own page after so few appearances - however he is on the main HBO cast and characters page and this is one of the criteria many people use to distinguish secondary characters from primary. He also has a long history with the Soprano crime family and is referenced long before his first appearance.
  • Gloria Trillo is also on HBO's main list and I believe this is the reason she appears as a secondary character. She is also of importance beyong her own character arc as she has been a constant fixture in Tony's dreams since her death.
  • Finally we're making an effort to reduce the size of this article and merging characters back in does the opposite.

-Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 11:26, 27 April 2006

I think Feech should be moved down as well. Howeverm I'm on the fence about Gloria, she does appear in Tony's dreams a couple times, indicating significance of the character. I do think that if Gloria stays Irina should be moved up because she's had as much, if not more, of an impact on Tony and the series as his goomara in the first few seasons. --M vopni 18:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about moving Irina up - the character has seniority as she was in the pilot, the actress has been with the cast since "46 Long" and she appears in 4 different series. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 18:39, 27 April 2006
the discussion is about Feech and Gloria, whom both appear very little in the series as a whole. Just weeks back, you were trying to convince me to look at the series as a "whole" so that's what i'm doing. feech and gloria are seriously less than tertiary. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 22:52, 27 April 2006
Sorry Zarbon I think you may be confusing me with someone else - just weeks back I wasn't a member of Wikipedia! Feech and Gloria are on the HBO main character list - one of the criteria I identified for inclusion as a secondary character from the discussion about merging Brendan Filone below. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 22:56, 27 April 2006
i didn't mean "you" specifically. i was referring to at least 6 other members here. I was just merely pointing out that Brendan, Matt, and Sean are literally more important than Feech La Manna in the series as a whole...and Feech is listed in secondary...why is that? The HBO site isn't the end-all be-all. Seriously, Eugene Pontecorvo and Richie Aprile aren't really main characters either. The only dead guys who should remain on the main lists are Pussy and Ralph. I'm iffy on Tony Blundetto as well, considering the fact that he appeared approximately the same amount as Richie. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 23:15, 27 April 2006
Point taken. I agree that Brendan, Matt and Sean were all major characters in their own series and warrant consideration for the secondary character list. Why not join the discussion in the primary, secondary, tertiary part of the page and try to come up with some consensus guidelines for who should be in which arbritrary group. I felt I had to stick up for poor old Feech as you seem like you might be picking on him because of your passion for other characters!
I agree with you about Ralphie and Pussy but I'm afraid I disagree about Eugene - he is a main character to me. Reasons for considering him so include his long list of appearances across multiple seasons, Robert Funaro being billed as a star of the show (in the opening credits) and presence on HBOs character list.
As for Richie and Tony B - their appearances are limited to single seasons although they both received star billing and a place on the HBO list. Both acted as one of the major antagonists to the lead character throughout their respective seasons and I definitely considered them main characters for the seasons they took part in. -Opark 77 — Preceding undated comment added 00:16, 28 April 2006

excellent notion. i would agree with you on all counts, and that would get me somewhere because Brendan, Sean, and Matt seriously are secondary characters in their respective seasons. as for the other stuff, i completely agree except for feech. i don't know...his character was very limited. within the short period he was in. we see him get out of prison, beat up a lawnmower, then get set up and go right back to prison. i'm not sure if that's enough for character development. same consensus on gloria trillo. disregarding the dream sequences tony had, if we look at her when she was alive, all she did was have a 3 episode relationship with tony, and get brushed off by Patsy, who threatened her. and that was it. she had absolutely no other development other than that. One could argue that Mustang Sally Intile had more development. he protected his girlfriend and his reputation by beating the spatafore bro in the head. bobby sr. reciprocated by executing him for his mistake along with carlos as collateral. that in itself was more character development than feech and gloria combined and it took mustang sally one episode to achieve this development. A character such as Eugene pontecorvo, who did absolutely nothing on the series other than get made and break a glass on little paulie's head finally got developed in episode 66 only to get killed off in the same episode. basically, people who play a major role in one episode are extremely important in comparison to people who are appearing throughout the full series and doing absolutely nothing. take Elliot kupferberg for example. his presence has done absolutely nothing thus far. he's a quad character, lower than tertiary really and he's listed on the hbo site. this same consensus would apply with feech. and most of all, this best defines a character such as david scatino, whom had absolutely no character development whatsoever other than getting into debt and paying up. I don't want to sound like I'm rambling...but the main point of all this is that Brendan, Sean, and Matt all deserve secondary pages, and feech and gloria...do not. however, i will not vote for matt and sean to be secondary because then if they were raised to secondary position and brendan were left behind, that would make no sense. they had the same level of credits and appearance wise, had the same amount of scenes that they were in. that is why i am voting against matt and sean to be secondary and voting that brendan be moved to secondary. if brendan is successfully moved, then i would gladly change my vote in favor of matt and sean to be moved to secondary as well. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 05:02, 28 April 2006

Article Size[edit]

This main article has been split into subarticles to reduce it's size and avoid deletion. A summary of the discussion for this is below --Opark 77 23:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the article is too large according to Wikipedia guidelines. They suggest a discussion of how the article could be split up to reduce the size. Does anyone have any thoughts?
I thought that moving some characters into the secondary list may reduce size but I can see there has been opposition to relatively minor characters being listed as secondary. Perhaps the various groups of tertiary characters sould be split into their own lists each with an article with a summary remaining in the main list.

-Opark77

I don't think that would help. Its better to keep everyone on this page,Wikipedia Is Not Paper. Hope that helps. Sfufan2005 20:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I see what you mean after carefully discovering that this page is over 100k WAY over the comfort limit for Wikipedia articles. Usually at 50k you're supposed to merge. So this is what I propose:
The character article stays with the main and secondary characters in tact however the following subarticles are placed into their own articles:
    • Mob associates of The Sopranos: all of the DiMeo and Lupertazzi soldiers and crime associates
    • Blood relatives and acquaintances of The Sopranos: all of the Blood relatives and friends (including Melfi's).
and the FBI section be merged with FBI Informants on The Sopranos which could then be moved to an entire article including both renamed FBI (The Sopranos). Any opinions? I leave it up to you folks for a decision. Sfufan2005 03:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That seems reasonable to me -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 07:36, 27 April 2006
I have separated out the DiMeo crime family characters and created a summary with links to the new page. I have also updated the links in the DiMeo Crime Family article. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 12:23, 27 April 2006
This looks like a good move. Nice job. For the record, this is a list, not an article, so it's okay for it to be long. There are much longer lists out there. Kafziel 12:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the positive feedback Kazfiel. I have created the List of characters from The Sopranos in the Lupertazzi Crime Family page as well and similarly added a summary. I have yet to update the links in the Lupertazzi Crime Family page. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 13:59, 27 April 2006
Added the list of FBI agent characters to the main FBI page, which I then moved (or renamed). I have replaced this part of the main list with a summary and links but I'm concerned I have disrupted some links to the original article but unsure how to find and correct these. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 13:59, 27 April 2006

I notice that user Zarbon has reverted the content I moved to the List of characters from The Sopranos in the DiMeo Crime family article. I have put it back again. How can I contact his to ask him not to do this without first reading the discussion and learning why I set up the article in the first place. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 17:16, 27 April 2006

You can go to his user page and edit his talk page if you would like to alert him on the changes. Sfufan2005 21:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
i realize you want to decrease the size of the page. there's no reasoning behind moving the dimeo family and leaving the other familys intact. there is however another suggestion i have. you can move the family friends to their own section as well as the other associates. that also takes up a lengthy portion of the page and it's a much more logical move. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 22:21, 27 April 2006
Zarbon - I created the new article with a consensus from other editors and spent approximately an hour making sure the links to the page and the summary in the main article were in place. Based on the suggestions of SFUfan I am in the process of moving both the criminal characters and family friends into new separate list pages, this is time consuming and I started with the criminals because they were first on the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opark 77 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
i understand that you spent time, but i can spend the same amount of time doing it. that doesn't mean it's right to leave the page like that. might i suggest that you finish doing it for all the other people as well before you simply move dimeo only. if you were to separate all of the characters into sections, then it would be fine, but to move dimeo only and leave all the lesser people there is just nonsensical. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 22:36, 27 April 2006
But you didn't spend the same amount of time doing it. You could have moved the other characters into sublists and assisted me in the task instead of insisting that I do it. However you chose to revert my work, initially without discussing it, slowing my progress. I have now finished the project and all the tertiary characters are in sublists. I'm sorry that the page looked a little untidy during the process of the move. I kept a record of my progress here in the discussion so that anyone confused could follow what was going on. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 23:06, 27 April 2006

Main and Supporting Characters - Guidelines[edit]

As of the 27 April 2006 there are 20 main (or primary) characters and 200 supporting characters in our list. These divisions are arbitrary and open to personal interpretation. I note that this has caused some argument on this page in the past. The main difference between the groups is their organisation - main characters typically have their own article while supporting characters do not. Previously a third set of characters was used - secondary characters - these characters also had their own pages.

I also note from discussion below that Wikipedia policy is that an article can be merged into it's parent list without discussion if there is no opposition. Perhaps the discussion pages of secondary character and main character articles should all have a list of reasons for the separate page to prevent merging back and forth.

I was wondering if there are any conventions for determining who is what sort of character? I think it would be useful to try and reach a consensus on these conventions and produce guidelines for the decision on the importance of a character. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opark 77 (talk • contribs) 00:26 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Having read the merge discussion for Brendan Filone below I have identified some criteria that other editors seem to use and started a list.

Potential criteria for determining a character's importance:

  • Presence of a character on the main HBO character list
  • Number of episodes appeared in
  • Type of credit (opening titles/guest starring)
  • Seniority - length of time in the series with characters who first appeared in the pilot episode given the greatest weight (added as per Sfufan2005's suggestion below) --Opark 77 22:56, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Main Characters[edit]

I've copied a list of the main characters and added information relating to the criteria discussed above to show an evidence based approach to their categorisation. I've then include my opinion on each one. -Opark77 — Preceding undated comment added 02:12, 28 April 2006

All of the current main characters should stay 72.57.92.95 15:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Current[edit]

  • Tony Soprano - appeared as a star in every episode of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Carmela Soprano - appeared as a star in every episode of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Meadow Soprano - appeared as a star in almost every episode of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Anthony Soprano, Jr. - appeared as a star in almost every episode of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Dr. Jennifer Melfi - appeared as a star in every season of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Christopher Moltisanti - appeared as a star in every season of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Silvio Dante - appeared as a star in every season of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Paulie Walnuts - appeared as a star in every season of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark 77
  • Junior Soprano - appeared as a star in every season of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark 77
  • Janice Soprano - appeared as a star from season two of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark 77
  • Johnny "Sack" Sacramoni - appeared as a recurring guest star in season one, two and three. Later credited as a star from season four of the show to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Almost definite main character -Opark77
  • Bobby "Bacala" Baccalieri - appeared as a recurring guest star from season two of the show onwards, later appeared as a star continuing to date. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Almost definite main character -Opark77
  • Artie Bucco, played by John Ventimiglia - Has appeared in the show since the first season. Now listed as a star. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Almost definite main character -Opark77
  • Adriana La Cerva, played by Drea de Matteo - appeared as a recurring guest star from the pilot onwards in season one. Later credited as a star until season five. Appeared as a special guest star in season six. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Definite main character -Opark77
  • Furio Giunta - initially appeared as a guest star in season two, later credited as a star until season three.
    • Probable main character -Opark77
    • Supported as a main character by Sfufan2005 (-Opark77)
  • Sal "Big Pussy" Bonpensiero - appeared as a star in seasons one and two from pilot onwards. Later recurs as a guest star. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Almost definite main character -Opark77
  • Ralph Cifaretto, played by Joe Pantoliano - appeared as a star in seasons three and four. Later recurs as a guest star. Included in HBOs character list
    • Almost definite main character -Opark77
  • Tony Blundetto - appeared as a star in season five. Actor later appears as a guest star in season six. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Probable main character -Opark77
    • Supported as a main character by Sfufan2005 (-Opark77)
  • Livia Soprano - appeared as a star from season one to early season three, from pilot onwards. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Almost definite main character -Opark77
    • Supported as a main character by Sfufan2005 (-Opark77)
  • Vito Spatafore - Initially appeared as a guest star in season two recurring into season five, later credited as a star in season six. Included in HBOs character list.
    • Probable main character --Opark 77 20:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against - Definite secondary character
    • Main character Wesley Mullins
    • Main character Sfufan2005 22:54, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Main character - MistaTee votes for (see below) --Opark 77 20:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Main character - VSrugbyfan —Preceding comment was added at 20:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Richie Aprile - Starring 2000 for 10 episodes. Later single guest starring appearances in season five and planned in season six. On HBOs main character list.
    • Opark 77 votes in favour of being a main character
    • User:65.33.165.183 edited Richie up to a main character making this a small consensus -Opark77
    • Sfufan2005 supports Richie being considered a main character along with Pussy, Tony B., Livia, Vito and Furio.
    • Zarbon votes against.
    • Main character - MistaTee votes for (see below) --Opark 77 20:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

--Opark 77 23:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Previous Secondary Characters[edit]

I've copied a list of the characters previously considered secondary and added information relating to the criteria discussed above to show an evidence based approach to their categorisation. Votes on the appropriate status of each character are beneath. I suppose we are using the secondary characters as those that aren't on the main character list but do appear in their own articles - so if anyone wants an article for a character nominate them and see how the other editors feel. --Opark 77 22:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a summary of the votes under each characters name in the format Main:Secondary(own article):tertiary(merge into list) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Opark 77 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Currently the voting stands in favour of Irina and Mikey getting their own articles and Feech getting merged. Would someone like to undertake this?--Opark 77 15:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Current[edit]

  • Carmine Lupertazzi - Recurring 2001-2004. 1 episode season three, 6 in season four, 3 in season five, On HBOs main character list.
  • 0:5:0
  • Patsy Parisi - Single episode in season two, then recurring for 27 episodes seasons three to four, then starring 2006. On HBOs main character list.
  • 0:4:0
  • Hesh Rabkin - Recurring pilot-present as a guest star in opening titles for 22 episodes. On HBOs main character list.
  • 0:5:0
  • Gloria Trillo - recurring 2001-2002. Guest star in season five. On HBOs main character list.
  • 0:3:3

Suggested Secondary Characters[edit]

Both Mikey Palmice and Irina Peltsin currently have a consensus for warranting their own articles. Would someone like to set them up and move the votes up into the current secondary characters section? --Opark 77 16:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Brendan Filone - Recurring season one from episode 2 (i.e. some seniority) for 4 episodes. Not on HBOs main character list.
To be specific, he was alive for two episodes, his corpse was seen in one episode, and his picture was seen in another. He was effectively in two episodes.--Orion Minor 20:18, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • 0:3:5
    • Secondary --Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes in favour (opinion given below, I agree with Kafziel. I would also propose getting rid of the tertiary section and having primary and secondary only. i originally made the tertiary section, but now after thinking carefully, i no longer find the tertiary section needed.)
    • Kafziel votes in favor (seems to have made a significant impact on some viewers, and if it will help keep the peace, then I support. I would actually propose removing the "tertiary" section completely, and having "Main characters" and "supporting characters".) Kafziel 18:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Teritary Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • M Vopni votes against (opinion given below)
    • Wesleymullins votes against (opinion given below) - and I am still against Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Orion Minor votes against. A bit suprised to find my opinion here before I even cast my vote. He is not secondary, I've given my opinion below. --Orion Minor 02:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against (2 episodes??, not enough) 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC) Zarbon posted - remember that Brendan is in 4 episodes and not in 2 (moved by --Opark 77 23:28, 28 April 2006 (UTC))[reply]
  • Matthew Bevilaqua - Recurring 2000 for 5 episodes. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:2:3
    • Secondary --Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wesleymullins votes against (opinion given below) - And I am still against Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against (opinion given below)
    • Against 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • In favor. Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sean Gismonte - Recurring 2000 for 4 episodes. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:1:4
    • Secondary --Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wesleymullins votes against (opinion given below) - Still against Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against (opinion given below)
    • Against 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Definite against Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Irina Peltsin - Recurring 1999-2002. First appearance Pilot (different actress) or 46 Long giving superiority. 13 appearances spread over first four seasons. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:5:1
    • M Vopni suggested that Irina deserves a place as a secondary character as long as Gloria remains there (see below)
    • I agree with Vopni. If Gloria, then Irina Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Secondary --Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against
    • Probably 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • In Favor, if Gloria stays she should Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jackie Aprile, Sr. - Recurring and credited as a guest star in the opening titles in season one (three episodes from 46 long so has some seniority) and guest starring in one episode in 2001. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:2:3
  • GiGi Cestone - Recurring in season two and three totalling 13 episodes. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:1:3
    • Secondary - Had a long and complicated mob career switching families several times.--Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against. Most casual watchers of the show say "who?" Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC) - I'd like to see some figures please :) (actually this is very true - I've had to explain who he was when he dies every time I watch the show with someone new!) --Opark 77 23:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against. Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mikey Palmice - Recurring in season one from "46 Long" onwards (seniority) totalling 10 episodes. Single guest starring role in season 5. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:3:2
    • Secondary - Was a major character in the first series. --Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against
    • For 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • 2ndary. Very strong player in Season 1. Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Carlo Gervasi - Recurring from season four onwards with 14+ episodes. Not on HBOs main character list.
  • 0:2:3
    • Secondary - Capo, has an increasingly expanding role. --Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • For, if he continues to get a lot of air time in season 6/7 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against
    • Against Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against. Not enough info or background for him to have his own page Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Raymond Curto - Recurring from season one onwards (first appearance "Meadowlands" - some seniority) totalling 16 episodes.
  • 0:2:3
    • Secondary - Capo, longest running rat.--Opark 77 23:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • For 72.57.92.95 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Against Wesleymullins 18:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against
    • Against just because the only background we have is that he was a rat and had a son w/ MS Sfufan2005 18:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Michele "Feech" La Manna - Recurring 2004 for 4 episodes. On HBOs main character list.
  • 0:0:6 (almost)
    • Tertiary --Opark 77 23:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zarbon votes against - definite tertiary character
    • Tertiary 72.57.92.95 15:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tertiary Wesleymullins 18:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Neutral, I think Feech played an important role in the first four episodes even though he was kind of a filler character until the end of Episode 4. Leaning towards TeritarySfufan2005 18:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tertairy vote by MistaTee (see below) --Opark 77 21:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Simplification[edit]

The main page has been altered so that characters are listed in alphabetical order and the list of secondary characters has been merged with the tertiary characters to give the suppiorting characters category - the discussion for this edit is below:--Opark 77 18:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose we return to how the list was set up previously, with only two categories for characters. "Main characters" are those already agreed upon, and anyone else is a "supporting character". This protracted debate about whether characters are "secondary" or "tertiary" has wasted a lot of time that could have been better spent on more productive things. Switching back to the old way would end most (if not all) of the debates and arguments here, without compromising anything within the list itself. We could get back to business. Kafziel 18:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I want to clarify that this would not mean everyone gets their own article (I do not support that at all), and it would not mean that Opark77's work is wasted. The other pages would stay as they are. It would just turn this into a list with two categories: Those who are main characters and those who are not. Each name would still be linked, leading to that person's entry on the appropriate list on the page where their description is found. See my sandbox for what it would look like (the one in my sandbox isn't in alphabetical order yet, just simplified the way I am suggesting). Kafziel 19:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That could work, but whose to say it won't turn into a fight on who is main or not (Phil, Ro etc.) 72.57.92.95 — Preceding undated comment added 19:38, 28 April 2006
So far there hasn't been much arguing about who deserves main character status. It's mostly been splitting hairs betwen secondary and tertiary. If there are one or two characters that are borderline, then that could be left up to consensus, but for the most part it should be pretty clear. Kafziel 19:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Update:Now the list on my sandbox page is alphabetized and looks exactly like this page will look if we implement this. All of the links still work, leading to the other pages. I think it looks a lot better, but of course I am biased. If we decide to use it, all that needs to be done is to cut and paste it from my page to here. Kafziel 21:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your sandbox page looks great - far easier to navigate than my summary version. You certainly have my support to implement it.
I noticed that you have left in the actors for the secondary characters and their time on the show - would you plan to have this for all characters on the summary page eventually? I got it by looking at imdb and sometimes a personal list of sopranos actors and characters so it's probably not necessary and could be removed. I think the "recurring" clarifier should definitely be removed as some of these secondary characters have been credited as starring in certain seasons. Just giving the dates is a more accurate representation of the facts for these characters as recurring implies a guest star.
I propose that the information lost from this article regarding how the characters are organised in crews etc. should continue to be made accesible by posting a quick explanation and links to the subarticles, two Crime Family articles and the FBI agents article in the page introduction--Opark 77 00:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with kafziel. I originally separated the sections into tertiary, and have now decided that the tertiary section is completely not needed. it would be wiser if there were simply main and secondary and it would simplify things. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 22:07, 28 April 2006

I'm a little annoyed to have to agree with you Kafziel - this makes perfect sense. I just wish I'd suggested it before going to the effort of trying to rationalise the divisions and set up a voting system. I'm going to move this section to the top so that people see it first before my possibly redundant sections! --Opark 77 23:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps my voting system could still be of use - we can leave it in so people can vote for possible additions/removals from the main character list.

I know you have said that we should leave the list of main characters as is but I feel that anyone listed as a star of the show on the front page (i.e. in the opening credits and not with a Guest Starring clarifier) probably deserves their own page. That would mean several of the characters who are currently secondary - perhaps we can leave voting open and see what consensus is reached.--Opark 77 00:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really have an opinion on who should be main and who should be secondary. I just want the pages to be easier to navigate. There are clearly some people who aren't main characters and should not have their own page, but it's fine to make individual pages for the ones identified as main characters by the votes here.
As far as the names and episodes, I think the only characters who should have the actor's name next to them should be the main characters and any secondary characters played by a famous person (i.e., someone who already has his or her own article, with other tv shows/movies under their belt). Maybe not even that. Clicking on each name takes you to all of that information anyway, so it's redundant. But I don't feel strongly about that one way or the other. It's a lot easier to take the few off that are there than to add all the rest, but if someone wants to go to all the trouble of putting all that information here, more power to 'em. Kafziel 01:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
On Opark77's suggestion I also added a note to the introduction on my sandbox version, directing readers to the subpages where they can view the characters organized by their crews on the show, to make it easier for those who just want to browse. Kafziel 01:14, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That looks good. You still definitely have my go ahead to put it up.--Opark 77 07:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I haven't heard any objections so I'm going to put it up. Thanks, everyone. Kafziel 13:12, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problems with the proposed page. Sfufan2005 13:59, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Additions to the list[edit]

I've created this section for people who can't find a character they want to identify in the list and don't have the information available to add them themselves. If you add their name to the list below then other editors can look them up and try to find out as much as possible about them before creating an entry.--Opark 77 00:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Jimmy - listed in the DiMeo Crime Family article as a former soldier (deceased) in the Soprano/Gualtieri crew not in the death list for the show. Can't find him in imdb. Update - I did a bit of detective work in the history of the DiMeo Crime Family article and found this - "Jimmy" {last name unknown} - Soldier (Deceased- dies in jail due to FBI informant Febby Petrulio's testimony). So I'm assuming this Jimmy is an unseen character referenced in College. Could anyone double check this?--Opark 77 00:58, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Simplification Fallout[edit]

Now that the main page has been simplified (see above) the secondary characters appear in the alphabetised list of supporting characters. However each secondary character has their own article. Do we want to keep things this way or merge all secondary characters into the lists with the other supporting characters?

Personally I am in favour of leaving them with their own articles but I wonder whether links to their articles should also appear in the relevant sublist articles. --Opark 77 19:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some supporting characters may deserve their own articles. If well-written, non-stub articles are already in place, they should stay. Those with their own articles should already be linked to from here, and it looks like most of the less significant characters have already been merged where necessary. I've looked around a bit, and things seem to be pretty well sorted out. Kafziel 18:17, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So we should use the secondary classification to justify characters having their own page - still requiring a consensus or just if the article is long enough to be non-stub?--Opark 77 18:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there really is no distinction between secondary and tertiary; that was the point of setting the list up this way. In reality, there are main characters and supporting characters. No supporting character is really categorized any further than that. There's no such thing as an academy award for "best secondary actor" or "best tertiary actor". If you're not a main character, you're a supporting character. The merits of the individual characters can be weighed to see if they deserve an article of their own, but most do not. So don't think about it in terms of secondary and tertiary. That was an experiment by Zarbon that ended quite badly and should really just be forgotten. What constitutes a stub is somewhat subjective, but the basic guidelines are at Wikipedia:Stub. Kafziel 19:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Kafziel, I understand the distinction is academic but it is an experiment that has not yet ended - the secondary classification essentially still exists as long as some supporting characters have their own articles as we are distinguishing between the supporting characters by giving some of them individual articles. I just hope to reach a set of guidleines for how the editors want do this. --Opark 77 22:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should I set up links to characters with their own articles in the relevant subarticles?--Opark 77 18:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If a character has his own article, his entry on the sub-page should really just be a one sentence synopsis and "see main article at Tony Soprano", etc. Also note that links to other articles should not be placed in section headings. Kafziel 19:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Kafziel, I have learned from that mistake! I will go ahead and add the links and short sumamries when I have time.--Opark 77 22:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Links to all the secondary characters articles I could find are now in place in the subarticles. --Opark 77 15:53, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Proposals[edit]

I am proposing that the following characters be merged into the list pages:

  1. Vito Spatafore - after today's episode, he won't be around for the final 9.
  2. Richie Aprile - total eps 12...
  3. Michele Feech La Manna - 3 eps...
  4. Gloria Trillo - not an important character at all...only 4 eps as well.

- Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 03:43, 22 May 2006

Zarbon, fair proposals all. These merges are already being considered above and voting stands as:
1. 3:1 in favour of Vito having his own article - I'll leave the tag on for a while but if there's no change in voting I'll take it off.
2. 3:1 in favour of Richie having his own article - I'll leave the tag on for a while but if there's no change in voting I'll take it off.
3. Against Feech having his own article - if you want to move this you have consensus and should feel free to do so. Please go through the other character profiles, timeline, main list of characters and relevant episode guides updating the links to Feech's bio if you do move the page. His entry in the character guide will need a list of episodes that he appeared in, which should be linked up to the episode guides and should retain his picture.
4. Gloria Trillo has recently received her own page because of consensus voting above. It needs expanding if it's going to stick around IMO. I'd say it's a wait and see situation for now.
--Opark 77 06:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I vote the same as Opark - Vito and Ritchie should have their own page but not Feech or Gloria. --MistaTee 13:56, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

well, the series will run for quite a while longer without Vito. As for Richie, i really don't know as to why he's being considered a "main" character since his character was around near the same length as many people who are listed as supporting. I will work on Feech soon and Gloria is in the void right now. i would hope that a consensus is reached dealing with Gloria soon so that the proper steps can be taken. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 04:25, 23 May 2006

I think the rationale for Richie and Vito being starring "main" characters is largely that they're in the opening credits as stars. I know you're opinion was that it doesn't matter how many episodes someone is in it's what they do in their screen time that counts. Vito has held the A plot in a few episodes now. Richie was Tony's main antagonist for a whole season and his storyline with Janice gave him some screentime apart from Tony too.
  • Which characters do you think have played a larger role than them? Or a similar role too.
  • Are they already being discussed above in the list of main and secondary characters?

--Opark 77 07:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

alright, i'll leave Richie and Vito, but i will fuse Gloria and Feech. - Zarbon — Preceding undated comment added 22:58, 24 May 2006

Category tags[edit]

Category:Lists of characters from The Sopranos is a subcategory of both Category:Lists of fictional characters and Category:The Sopranos characters, so there is no need to explicitly tag this article as a member of those categories as well. --Paul A 07:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Di Palma[edit]

The elderly man Tommy who takes care of (and loses) Junior in Where's Johnny? is clearly not Tommy Di Palma. His last name is never mentioned. Back in early season 1, when Jackie is dying of cancer, Mikey Palmice says that Tommy Di Palma also has cancer, but "way worse than you". Whoever this Di Palma guy is, if he had cancer worse than Jackie, he would certainly be dead in 2004, four years later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.236.152 (talk) 20:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hesh Rabkin[edit]

Back when the Family Tree was on HBO's Sopranos web site, it said that Hesh was Jackie's Consigliere. Anyone know anything about this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.236.152 (talk) 02:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmy Petrille[edit]

It is listed that Jimmy was Johnny Sack's Consigliere for his short tenure as free Boss. Anyone know why that is assumed? In All Due Respect, Neil Mink says that the whole "Petrille crew" was taken down, indicating that he's still the Capo of his crew. Also, at John's house, John tells Tony that Phil will likely want to become Consigliere, further hinting that Johnny did not yet choose one, and Jimmy was still only a Capo. Where did the Petrille Consigliere theory come from? --Ant1238 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.236.152 (talk) 04:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Butch DeConcini[edit]

For no apparent reason, the actor that plays him, he's listed as a main cast member since the first episode of the final nine. Since the article's policy towards main characters seems to be whether they are credited as such, should we include him? Or should we wait to see how the season pans out? --148.241.24.15 10:56, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Silvio Dante[edit]

Excuse me but Silvio isn't dead yet. At the end of 'The Blue Comet' he was seriously wounded. I'm not an experienced enough Wikipedian to change the article, and I agree he will probably be dead by next week's episode, but in the interest of accuracy i thought i'd point this out. Oh, and please forgive me for that last run-on sentence. MathewBrooks 18:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)MathewBrooksMathewBrooks 18:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vin Makazian[edit]

I added Vin Makazian to the main character section since John Heard's name was listed in the opening credits of Season One. Geeky Randy 05:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed him. He was listed as a guest star not part of the starring cast.--Opark 77 15:38, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hesh and Glorida were too, but they're still part of the cast. Vin Makazian also makes an appearance in "The Test Dream". Geeky Randy 05:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Main Characters[edit]

Characters who are can be listed a Main Character should have one of the following:

All of the character, at the present time, that are listed as main character meet this requirement. Therefore, characters like Walden, Agent Dwight Harris, etc. do not qualify. Geeky Randy 19:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. We have a process for determining who gets their own article as detailed above and that process relies upon editor consensus. I think the characters listed as main characters ought to be those who are in the starring cast only - this would preclude those who have the special guest star credit also.--Opark 77 21:19, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Main Characters vs. Supporting Characters[edit]

Main characters are actors listed in the opening credits whether or not they appear in a specific episode. Supporting actors are actors listed in the opening credits only when they appear in an episode. Geeky Randy (talk) 09:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have shortened the list of main characters to 10 as they were too many. What i suggest is that were have a "Main supporting characters" list and a minor characters list instead of one huge list. Characters such as Janice and Bobby can go on to the Main supporting list. And characters like Raymond Curto and Finn Detrilo can go on the minor characters list. Every character on the "main" list and "main supporting" list should have an article to themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VSrugbyfan (talk • contribs) 11:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment on articles for individual television episodes and characters[edit]

A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episode and character, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline. Ikip (talk) 08:18, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Missing info for Butch DeConcini[edit]

Whereas Albie Cianflowne has his own section that a user is directed to upon clicking his name on the list of Lupertazzi family members, when clicking on Butch DeConcini's name, one is simply redirected to the List of The Sopranos characters.

In other words, there is currently no info on Butch. Can someone please fix this? Butch was one of my favourite characters on The Sopranos. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.205.252 (talk) 20:14, 3 June 2010 (UTC) 67.174.205.252 (talk) 07:03, 3 July 2010 (UTC) [reply]

Vito Spatafore[edit]

Vito Spatafore 1
Vito Spatafore 2

Delete one? OreL.D (talk) 17:35, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This article...[edit]

is a disaster. There is rampant overlinking, numerous examples of poor writing, too much in-universe description, lots of speculation and opinions posing as fact, etc. This needs to be copy-edited from top to bottom. ---RepublicanJacobiteTheFortyFive 19:06, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed 100% Some major characters are not listed here, even though they have their own pages! It's absurd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.7.244.51 (talk) 04:08, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quote from Butch attributed to Albie?[edit]

Albie's article states the following at the end:

"He does not disclose to Tony where Phil is hiding, saying he 'can't go there, but you do what ya gotta do.'" I'm fairly positive this line is uttered by Butch, not Albie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 221bbaker (talk • contribs) 21:17, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links[edit]

All external links need to be listed at the end. Please make this change. I'll make it if no one winds up doing it. Best, Kingturtle = (talk) 16:13, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Proposed merge of List of The Sopranos characters in the Soprano crime family into List of The Sopranos characters[edit]

This series only needs one character list. These entries should all be trimmed, and minor characters should be pruned. All the lists should be merged, but one list should probably be merged at a time unless someone actually familiar with the series is available to knowledgeably purge minor characters. TTN (talk) 23:24, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support merge all lists into one for all non-main characters. A second list may only be necessary if main-character articles also get merged. I haven't seen the show though and would just as likely butcher this too much. I would/will only help once I've cleaned up other problematic non-standard character lists. – sgeureka t•c 07:53, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support fundamentally, but one extra character article may be warranted due to the shear amount of characters on The Sopranos—WP:SPLITSIZE. The work required to do the merge would also be high. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:20, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Care will be needed. Both articles are very large. See WP:CHOKING. Narky Blert (talk) 13:25, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This article in particular will definitely be cut down to like a fourth once the article is trimmed. None of these characters need more than a paragraph or two, so that's the bulk of the article. TTN (talk) 13:31, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looking at the incoming merge list, there are quite a few characters that appeared in only 1-3 episodes, so I think I'll cut anything less than four episodes to start if this goes through. Though if anyone who has actually watched the show has input on a different style of cutting overly minor characters, certainly let me know. TTN (talk) 15:15, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - It has been about a month now with no outright opposition, so some time in the next few days I'll begin trimming the list in preparation for merger. As mentioned above, first order of business will to be to cull any characters appearing in three episodes or less to see what we're ultimately working with, then trimming existing character sections in both articles. If anyone has objections or suggestions, please let me know. TTN (talk) 18:29, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@TTN: Thanks for diving into the weeds on this one. One thing I would say about your proposed four episode cutoff for inclusion, is bring that down to three episodes (unless the character is really very minor or has little influence in the outcomes of the show). I would also say use judgement with any cutoff because those who may not appear many times can still have huge roles on the outcomes of the events of the show. For example when Tony roughs up Coco for his interaction with Meadow, this character only appears in two episodes but was basically the last straw for the Lupertazzi's to fully initiate their turn on Tony and his crime family. That being said, I'll keep an eye on your removals and raise any concerns here if I think a character merits inclusion. That also being said, do you have any plans of merging List of The Sopranos characters – Friends and family, List of The Sopranos characters in the Lupertazzi crime family and FBI on The Sopranos? Some of the characters overlap and many more of them are very minor in these lists, so I don't think it'll take too much more effort to merge them into one list (we can reevaluate this after this first list is merged). Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:54, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One episode characters and some excessive details have been removed. I'll cut two episode characters later. I'll probably cut any three episode characters down to one to three sentences for the "minor characters" section I added, then we can see how we're looking on size. Any important context characters appearing in less episodes can also be added to that sectopn. Not sure if all these characters have redirects, but another project if so could be to redirect them to the episode in which they appear. I'll plan on doing the same for the other lists so long as no opposition pops up. TTN (talk) 18:25, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Post merge, I think that the List of The Sopranos characters in the Soprano crime family could be moved to Soprano family, in line with Corleone family from The Godfather, adding back the history of the family and leaving the family structure. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:03, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, dropped off on this. The next step should be to trim the main characters. Per featured content like Characters of Carnivàle and List of Alien (film series) characters, other than the absolute couple main characters, no character should have over two paragraphs, and having more than one should entail having real world information in the second paragraph. The current sections are mostly plot summary, but they should be reworked into a general overview of the characters. Then other existing character articles should probably be merged. I'd guess of the 13 existing that at least half are definitely notable, but probably not all of them. Unless you think there's plenty of real world information on the two crime families, those should probably be folded into this as well. TTN (talk) 11:51, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TTN: Since you haven't watched the show, please hold of doing massive cuts to the main characters, especially since those like Johnny Sack do not have their own article—cutting them down to a rigorous "two paragraphs" which seems to be an arbitrary benchmark has caused his summary to not make sense. I've merged all the characters who had three or more appearances from the sub articles. I'll go through the others to try and cut more. I took the liberty to move the two sub pages to Soprano family and Lupertazzi family, both of which have some basis of real life crime families - the sources are given there. I kept their history and structure while moving the characters here. WP:NOTCLEANUP, which I know is aimed at deletion proposals, but parallels can be applied here—there is no urgency to cut text that make the bios not make sense. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:30, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There's no major rush, yes, but it should be done sooner than later. Limiting the number of paragraphs makes sense for multiple reasons, featured content has shown that it's a reasonable standard to meet, size issues for the list not allowing for such detail, and reducing the plot information to the minimum necessary. I understand that a lot of things can fluctuate over 5-10 season of a show, but these ultimately need to be just a description. The episode articles are what should give users the details on how the characters develop. Only the absolute main character needs more than that, but I don't see any way the Tony Soprano article would ever need to be merged. While I haven't seen the show, it wasn't particularly difficult to trim that section due to it being nearly all on-going plot details. While an expert eye is needed to polish it up obviously, it should be sufficient for the time being. TTN (talk) 17:46, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll go through the rest of the large bios later today, and try to cut some more. It isn't as easy as just keeping the top two paragraphs from each bio while cutting the rest, as that causes it not to have flow or make sense. Different parts have different weights of importance in that character's span on the show. A lot of what's in the bio is fluff language, which easily removes half of its size, usually. After I cut what I think is necessary to ensure the bio makes sense, I invite you to do some of your cuts, but please be wary. Given this show ran for six seasons, and given its unusually high number of characters, I don't think this is an article that can strive for FA while maintaining the information necessary to make the bios and the page make sense. This and it's subpages are continuously edited by IPs, which is also a problem for puffery. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:55, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think ultimately a different approach to the coverage of characters will have to be taken. Even if it's not literally two paragraphs to start, there's definitely no way they can be anywhere near the current size. It's currently more of a tell-all profile, while a normal character section should be more of a basic "who are they and what are they like" kind of summary description. It's not like this instantly needs to be FL quality or anything. I just think getting it cut down will be beneficial for future editors, so this doesn't balloon up to 500kb when someone thinks "X character has X paragraphs and obviously Y character needs that much as well" and so on. TTN (talk) 18:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The merge and trimming is fully complete. The article sits at about 230 kb - and I will be keeping a closer eye on this article so that the IPs that inevitably pop up every now and then do not balloon the article further. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:38, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Main Character Status[edit]

I've fully updated the main characters as per the opening credits to each episode, this is all correct and can be cross checked via IMDb, which has a verified credit order. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.176.128 (talk) 16:23, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 20:13, 7 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alleged bad blood between Hesh and Tony[edit]

re: this edit of mine:

Tony fails to repay the loan on time and starts berating Hesh about the [[Vigorish|vig]] on the loan which was $3,000 a week.<!--removed: ", leading to bad blood on both sides" There was no blood bath between Hesh and Tony, this needs to be clarified.-->

User:Vaselineeeeeeee reverted this w/o reasoning. I will revert that bc a) it's plain wrong and b) bc there's no source given. That alone is reason for deletion. tickle me 10:20, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did you then see my follow-up edit?? Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:59, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Page For Pussy, Ralph, Phil, And Tony B?[edit]

I think there's enough info for these characters to have their own pages. MrCboY1997 (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it fair to say that Phil was the 92nd and final murder of the Sopranos - this would indicate an editorial position that Tony S was not murdered in the final scene.[edit]

S6 ep 19 Foul quince (talk) 00:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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