Talk:Golden Dragon massacre

Death toll

I should note I think the history channel said that more than 5 people were killed in the Golden Dragon massacre, I might be wrong.--M4bwav 20:34, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you were confusing the number killed with the number injured? Combined that makes it confusing... I would understand. But until we find a source for more than five killed, we can't add it to this page. Lady Galaxy 05:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Rock Springs massacre which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Is the picture really the Golden Dragon?

Photograph in question

The photograph in the lead infobox states that it shows the Golden Dragon Restaurant. This appears to be the first-story space occupied in approximately the middle of the photograph, with green walls and yellow signboard. Based on the visible signs (Grant Street, prominent in the foreground, and Waverly, approximately where the Restaurant is), this photograph was taken at or near the intersection of Washington and Grant, facing west.

However, the photograph clearly shows Sam Wo (in 1993, known to be at 813 Washington) on the left side, and the restaurant that says "Golden Dragon" is just past it, on the corner of Washington and Waverly. This would be an odd-numbered street address, which is not correct. The Golden Dragon was at 816 Washington.

Instead, there is a signboard that's nearly obscured on the right hand side of the photograph by the taupe awning that has the word "Dragon" on it. This is the correct site of the Golden Dragon (816 Washington would be nearly across Washington Street from Sam Wo).

Contemporary photographs of the Imperial Palace Restaurant (as the business was renamed after 2012) show that building is very distinctly colored above the street-level sign (see gallery below). Therefore, the photograph was switched to a cropped version showing the opposite side of Washington.

• 
  Imperial Palace is immediately to the right of the King Tin building. Note distinct colors on second and third stories.
• 
  Best available photograph of Imperial Palace, low resolution.
• 
  Close-up of upper storeys of Imperial Palace.

Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 21:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

@Mlius92:

View of San Fransisco, standing at intersection of Ross and Washington, looking East, in Jan 1983

This is a picture I took in January 1983, standing at the corner of Ross and Washington looking east. "Golden Dragon" appears on the right side of the picture. The yellow sign one story high on the building says "Golden Dragon Restaurant". This picture is similar to the photograph in question, taken from the other direction.

I agree that this Golden Dragon Restaurant is on the opposite side of the street from the current location of the successor restaurant to the Golden Dragon. This leaves several possibilities: 1) The Golden Dragon changed location sometime after 1983, 2) there were two Golden Dragon restaurants immediately across the street from each other in 1983, 3) the Golden Dragon moved from 816 Washington Street to 829 Washington Street (the location in my photo) between 1977 and 1983, and then moved back to 816 Washington Street sometime after 1983.

I looked though all of the contemporary reference sources to this article that I was able to (some of them are now behind paywalls), and could find nothing to confirm that the address of the Golden Dragon was 816 Washington Street in 1977. All of the articles referred to a general location of the restaurant, but not to a specific address. It is possible that the reference to 816 Washington Street in the Wikipedia article is an assumption based on the current location of the restaurant of the same name.

Of the three possibilities listed above, #2 seems extremely unlikely, and #3 seems very unlikely. Since restaurants frequently change location, particularly over a period of nearly 40 years, #1 seems possible, and the best of the three explanations. Obviously this is a minor aspect of this thoroughly researched article, but I still think that more evidence is necessary to claim that 816 Washington Street was the address of the Golden Dragon in 1977.

Cheers, Gd9753 (talk) 20:06, 9 February 2019 (UTC)]

@Gd9753: Thank you for the contemporary photograph! With respect, the New York Times article reporting the shooting describes the restaurant as being "on Washington Street just off Grant Avenue in the heart of Chinatown." The San Francisco Chronicle coverage from the next day also states 822 Washington explicitly. This puts the restaurant close to the corner with Grant, rather than (as the sign in your 1983 photograph indicates) 829 Washington, on the corner of Washington & Waverly. I lean towards your second possibility, namely that a branch or spin-off location was opened at 829 Washington. In your 1983 photograph, at full resolution, on the left side of the photograph (north side of Washington), there is an illuminated green sign partially obscured by other signs which appears to say "GOLDEN DRAGON" in a yellow typeface matching the sign at 829 Washington.

Incidentally, contemporary Google Street View of Washington indicates there are two entrances to Imperial Palace, one at 818 and one at 822 Washington. According to the 1977 Chronicle article, the gunmen entered and fled through the downhill entrance at 818. I'm updating the address in the article to 822, matching contemporary coverage. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 06:14, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Photograph of Washington from Grant, looking west

Update: Here's a reverse angle similar to the position and view of the original photograph that sparked this discussion. The illuminated Golden Dragon Restaurant sign at 818-822 Washington has the words "Golden Dragon" in yellow on a green background; this is what I think I see (partially obscured) in your photograph from 1983. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 14:19, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Golden Dragon massacre/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vami IV (talk · contribs) 13:26, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Opening statement

In reviews I conduct, I may make small copyedits. These will only be limited to spelling and punctuation (removal of double spaces and such). I will only make substantive edits that change the flow and structure of the prose if I previously suggested and it is necessary. For replying to Reviewer comment, please use  Done,  Fixed,  Added,  Not done,  Doing..., or  Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make. I will be crossing out my comments as they are redressed, and only mine. A detailed, section-by-section review will follow. —♠Vami_IV†♠ 13:26, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Pinging Mliu92 (talk · contribs) as the author of the overwhelming majority of this article (80.4%). –♠Vami_IV†♠ 13:26, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

As this the first of the reviewee's articles that I have reviewed, they should note that I am a grammar pendant and will nitpick in the interest of prose quality. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 13:26, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• none of whom was a gang member Consider "none of whom were gang members".

 Done Thanks, the suggested phrasing is much improved. Mliu92 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Shooting

I recommend, from my (meager) experience reviewing and writing crime articles, renaming "Motive" as "Background" or "Context", and making independent sections out of "Motive" and "Preparations", and leaving "Shots fired" without its subsection header. As it is, the shooting kind of comes out of nowhere. And "Shots fired" is a disrespectful title, subject matter considered. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 13:26, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed The heading "Motive" was renamed to "Motivation". "Preparations" is now "Planning". "Shots fired" is now "At the Golden Dragon". Mliu92 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• The assassination attempt at the Golden Dragon Who was the target if this was a hit? The lead did not make this sound like a carefully planned hit.

 Fixed The leadership of the Wah Ching were the targets; in particular, Michael "Hot Dog" Louie. The Joe Boys were tipped that Louie was dining at the restaurant that night. Mliu92 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• The car was parked near his apartment, close to Green and Kearny. Too much detail, erase this.

 Removed References were retained as they support the preceding sentence. Mliu92 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

I noticed in re-reading that section to check things out that you went above and beyond with fixing up that section and I just want to take a quick moment to commend you for that. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 15:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Planning

• Yu asked Jon to keep track of Wah Ching and Hop Sing gang members This is the first mention of the Hop Sing, but the link (and full name) are two paragraphs down the page.

 Fixed

• and showed special interest in where they might be for a late night snack. Inappropriate phrasing.

 Fixed "showing special interest in where they gathered late at night." Mliu92 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• That Friday night (September 2, 1977) The year here is unnecessary since the reader already knows the year is 1977.

 Removed Mliu92 (talk) 14:09, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• a leader in the Joe Boy gang Joe Boys

 Fixed In Planning: now "Tom Yu, a leader of the Joe Boys" Mliu92 (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• ordered the weapons to be put away back into the closet Axe "away".

 Fixed Mliu92 (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• Repeated citation here: into the closet.[14] By this time, the group plotting the shooting consisted of Tom Yu, his brothers (Chester and Dana), Melvin Yu (no relation), Peter Ng, Peter Cheung, Curtis Tam, Kam Lee, and Don Wong.[14]

 Fixed Reference after "closet" was removed. Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

• Golden Dragon restaurant in San Francisco's Chinatown Link SanFran's Chinatown here.

 Done Mliu92 (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• The Golden Dragon was chosen as the site not only because it was a favored hangout of the Wah Ching, it was also favored by Hop Sing Tong members and was co-owned by Jack Lee, a Hop Sing elder. Condense.

 Fixed This was a goofy-sounding sentence. Now "The conspirators decided to target the Golden Dragon because it was a favorite hangout of both the Wah Ching and Hop Sing Tong. The planned raid would also financially damage Jack Lee, a Hop Sing elder and restaurant co-owner." I also moved it up to the first paragraph in Planning as it seems to make more sense there. Mliu92 (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

• Chester Yu, Curtis Tam, Melvin Yu, and Peter Ng, all members of the Joe Boys (Chung Ching Yee) gang, took firearms and ammunition from a closet in a friend's home in Pacifica, Latter two thirds of the highlighted text redundant, except for the grabbing the murder weapons and ammo.

 Fixed This sentence was tightened up to "Chester Yu drove the group of four (himself, Curtis Tam, Melvin Yu, and Peter Ng) to the Golden Dragon using the stolen Dodge." Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

• and Chester Yu drove the group to the restaurant in the Dodge that had been stolen earlier that evening by Peter Cheung and Dana Yu. Ditto.

 Fixed This redundant sentence was tightened up to "Chester Yu drove the group of four (Chester Yu, Curtis Tam, Melvin Yu, and Peter Ng) to the Golden Dragon using the stolen Dodge." Mliu92 (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

At the Golden Dragon

• According to unofficial sources, the gunman wielding the rifle (later identified as Melvin Yu)[23] was the first to open fire, walking directly up to a man at a table and shooting him, then continuing to shoot after that victim had fallen to the floor. Too long, and not a little bit redundant after the first paragraph.

 Fixed

• The quote box from Chief Gain is out of place. I did some Ctrl+Fs for his name and the patrolmen's and found no other mention of them or their role in the shooting. I recommend its removal.

 Not done Chief Gain is mentioned in the Aftermath, during the Investigation. The particular quote pertains to the two off-duty officers (Bonanno and Hargens/Harkins - sources vary on the second officer's surname) that were present during the shooting, which is in the adjacent paragraph. I edited the quote to include the names of the officers, which ties it into this section more concretely. Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

If the media didn't dwell on officers Bonanno and Hargens, we don't need to, either. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 17:18, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 Removed Quotebox is gone. Mliu92 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Aftermath

• criticized SFPD [...] distrust of SFPD [...] SFPD received [...] SFPD announced the SFPD

 Fixed Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

• Most of paragraph 2 of "Investigation" has absolutely nothing to do with the investigation.

 Fixed More context added. Gain's criticism of gambling in Chinatown was (as he claimed) an attempt to anger the community so they would provide more information than usual. Last sentence (SFPD Lt Murphy) moved up to first paragraph. Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Move it up to just after the first sentence. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 17:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done Mliu92 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• Five men, all members of the Joe Boys, were eventually arrested and convicted for the massacre: Curtis Tam, Melvin Yu, Peter Ng, Chester Yu, and Tom Yu Condense.

 Fixed "Five Joe Boys were eventually arrested and convicted for the massacre: [names];" Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Just write "[names] were arrested and convicted for the massacre." We already know who's who. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 17:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done Mliu92 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• Robert Woo, a police informant, recorded Tam recounting details of the attack, which led to his arrest. Redundant.

 Fixed Changed to "and a police informant recorded Tam recounting details of the attack." (joined to preceding sentence) Mliu92 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

• During the interrogation after his arrest, Tam confessed and implicated 11 other participants. Condense.

 Fixed "During his initial interrogation, Tam confessed and implicated 11 others." Mliu92 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

• How many years did Peter Ng get?

Unknown. Contemporary news coverage around the conviction of Ng (Feb 22-23, 1979) state the sentencing hearing was set for March 22. There are no apparent news articles that covered the sentencing hearing, and I cannot find an appeal case for "People vs. Ng". Mliu92 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunate. I'll cross off the bullet-point in lieu of this. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 11:00, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• An ex-Joe Boys member, Bill Lee, wrote about the killings and his life as a Joe Boys gangster in his book, Chinese Playground: A Memoir. Irrelevant and uncited; remove.

 Fixed Added reference. Mliu92 (talk) 17:04, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

GA progress

Note: Copyvio detector gave a 49% likelihood. I inspected, and found the matching content to be court sentencing and a lengthy quotation. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 18:40, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 09:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that members of the Joe Boys carried out the Golden Dragon massacre in an attempt to kill members of the rival Wah Ching gang, but none of the victims were gang members? "Chinatown massacre victims were just innocent bystanders". Lodi News-Sentinel. UPI. 6 September 1977. Retrieved 14 July 2017.
  • ALT1:... that the Golden Dragon massacre was the result of a gang feud originating in a dispute over fireworks sales? Kamiya, Gary (8 July 2016). "Chinatown gang feud ignited one of SF's worst mass homicides". San Francisco Chronicle. Retrieved 8 April 2020. The incident that triggered the Golden Dragon massacre took place at the Ping Yuen housing projects on Pacific Avenue near Stockton Street. For years, the gangs had made large sums of money selling illegal fireworks out of the projects.(subscription required)

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/List of tallest buildings in Myanmar

Improved to Good Article status by Mliu92 (talk). Nominated by MarkH21 (talk) at 11:42, 8 April 2020 (UTC).

• GA status, hooks are both interesting but ALT1 needs to be directly cited in the article. No copyvio issues. QPQ must be complete. Notify me with a ping when this is all complete. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 22:32, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • @Nice4What: QPQ done and ALT1's citation in the article has been moved to the corresponding sentence. — MarkH₂₁^talk 14:10, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
    • Good to go! Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 14:30, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Failed verification tag re: murders during the war between gangs in motivation

I added two failed verification tags to the article regarding the murder count of either 44 or 55 resulting from the war between the two gangs. I noticed that neither source appears to specify that the murder count was only for the two mentioned gangs. The second cite is actually quite unspecific as it doesn't even specify Chinatown/Chinese gangs. I don't know anything about this topic, so figured I'd leave it here in case any better citations exist. --Sesameball^Talk 20:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

@Sesameball: It seems that the first source only gives 44 as the death count for general gang violence in Chinatown and not from the two specific gangs, as you mentioned. I’ve just changed that sentence unless someone (I’m not sure who added that original claim) can provide another source. I haven’t taken a look at the second claim yet. — MarkH₂₁^talk 20:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

@MarkH21: Thanks for the fix. I was just re-reading the source and noticed that the article does mention: "In their clashes, since May of this year, 30 people have been killed or injured." That would be in less than 5 months (article date is September), but unsure if that provides better context. --Sesameball^Talk 06:16, 8 September 2020 (UTC)