Talk:Effects of pornography

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Frequently asked questions

The main points of this FAQ (Talk:Effects of pornography#FAQ) can be summarized as:

Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy requires that minority views not be given undue emphasis.

More detail is given on this point, below.

To view the response to a question, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

Q1: Why don't you state pornography addiction as fact?

A1: Our policies on Wikipedia, in particular WP:WEIGHT and WP:FRINGE, require us to provide coverage to views based on their prominence within reliable sources, and we must reflect the opinion of the scientific community as accurately as possible. For example, if the APA will include pornography addiction in the DSM, then Wikipedia will rubber-stamp its decision. Otherwise, Wikipedia isn't here to give a "fair and balanced" treatment to your pet ideas. In this respect, Wikipedia is merely a mirror which reflects medical orthodoxy. There is no official document from WHO, AMA, APA, Cochrane or APA which would imply that sex/porn/masturbation addiction would be a valid diagnosis. (CSBD isn't an addiction.)

Q2: Why don't you state that porn use is paraphilia (pictophilia)?

A2: The majority of US men use porn.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5] What the majority does is axiomatically clinically normal in psychiatry. According to The Huffington Post, 70% of men and 30% of women watch porn.^[6] Quite probably, the majority of US population between ages 18 and 35 use porn at least once a week.^[7] Conclusion? The people who say porn use is paraphilia should suck it up and be a man: they lost the debate, so they should quit whining. DSM-5 code for pornography use? Not any. ICD-10 code for pornography use? Not any. ICD-11 code for pornography use? Not any. So, of course it isn't paraphilia. Even allowing that an excessive obsession with porn is paraphilia, normal (ordinary) porn use isn't.

Q3: Why don't you state that pornography increases sexual aggression?

A3: Our policies on Wikipedia, in particular WP:WEIGHT and WP:FRINGE, require us to provide coverage to views based on their prominence within reliable sources, and we must reflect the opinion of the scientific community as accurately as possible. Crime statistics make the claim highly unlikely, and per WP:EXTRAORDINARY multiple, independent and very strong WP:MEDRS-compliant sources are required in order to overturn long-standing medical consensus, see also WP:RS/AC. Otherwise, Wikipedia isn't here to give a "fair and balanced" treatment to your pet ideas. In this respect, Wikipedia is merely a mirror which reflects medical orthodoxy.

Does Malamuth say that pornography increases sexual aggression? Nope, that's a misreading of his papers, as he himself declared to Quartz publication.^[8]

Past discussions

References

^ Stone, Lyman (26 June 2019). "Conservative Protestant Men Are Still Resisting Porn". Christianity Today. Carol Stream, Illinois. ISSN 0009-5753. Archived from the original on 27 June 2019. Retrieved 31 July 2021. By contrast, Protestant men today who attend church regularly are basically the only men in America still resisting the cultural norm of regularized pornography use.
^ Brenner, Grant Hilary (19 February 2018). "When Is Porn Use a Problem?". Psychology Today. Retrieved 18 September 2021.
^ Ritzenhoff, Karen A.; Hermes, Katherine A. (2009). Sex and Sexuality in a Feminist World. EBSCO ebook academic collection. Cambridge Scholars. p. 102. ISBN 978-1-4438-0426-4.
^ Grubbs, Joshua B.; Perry, Samuel L.; Grant Weinandy, Jennifer T.; Kraus, Shane W. (19 July 2021). "Porndemic? A Longitudinal Study of Pornography Use Before and During the COVID-19 Pandemic in a Nationally Representative Sample of Americans". Archives of sexual behavior. Springer Science and Business Media LLC. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02077-7. ISSN 0004-0002. PMC 8288831. PMID 34282505. At baseline, 43.4% of participants reported not having viewed pornography in the past year and 38% of participants reported using pornography, on average, at least once per month (59% of men and 21% of women).
^ Regnerus, Mark; Gordon, David; Price, Joseph (18 December 2015). "Documenting Pornography Use in America: A Comparative Analysis of Methodological Approaches". The Journal of Sex Research. 53 (7). Informa UK Limited: 873–881. doi:10.1080/00224499.2015.1096886. ISSN 0022-4499. If estimates generated from the RIA or NFSS are more valid, then pornography use is—or perhaps has become—a common and frequent experience among men, with just under half of all men using pornography in an average week. It is also not an uncommon or infrequent occurrence for women, with nearly one in five reporting pornography use in the past week.
^
Kleinman, Alexis (4 May 2013). "Porn Sites Get More Visitors Than Netflix, Amazon And Twitter Combined". HuffPost. Retrieved 18 September 2021. Sources:
1. Carroll, Jason S.; Padilla-Walker, Laura M.; Nelson, Larry J.; Olson, Chad D.; McNamara Barry, Carolyn; Madsen, Stephanie D. (2008). "Generation XXX". Journal of Adolescent Research. 23 (1). SAGE Publications: 6–30. doi:10.1177/0743558407306348. ISSN 0743-5584.
  Blue, Violet (24 July 2009). "Are more women OK with watching porn?". CNN.com. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
  "One in three women watch porn - study - The Courier-Mail". news.com.au. 10 February 2010. Archived from the original on 14 February 2010. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
2. Edelman, Benjamin (1 January 2009). "Markets: Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?" (PDF). Journal of Economic Perspectives. 23 (1). American Economic Association: 209–220. doi:10.1257/jep.23.1.209. ISSN 0895-3309.
  "Are the effects of pornography negligible? - UdeMNouvelles". nouvelles.umontreal.ca (in French). 1 December 2009. Archived from the original on 31 January 2013. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
3. https://web.archive.org/web/20130116164054/https://www.google.com/adplanner/static/top1000/
4. Hotsheet, Political (25 June 2010). "29% Accessed Porn on Work Computers Last Month - CBS News". Wayback Machine. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
  Leahy, Michael (2009). Porn @ Work: Exposing the Office's #1 Addiction. Moody Publishers. ISBN 978-1-57567-332-5.
5. Anthony, Sebastian (4 April 2012). "Just how big are porn sites?". ExtremeTech. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
^ Buchholz, Katharina (2019-02-11). "Infographic: How Much of the Internet Consists of Porn?". Statista Infographics. Retrieved 2022-08-11.
^ Goldhill, Olivia (7 March 2016). "Porn is like alcohol—whether it's bad for you depends on who you are". Quartz. Retrieved 18 February 2019.

This article was nominated for deletion on 29 November 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Effects of pornography on relationships was merged into Effects of pornography with this edit on 06:30, 24 October 2021. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Brain impact[edit]

We should include information on brain damage resulting from porn Jm33746 (talk) 21:37, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any such information would need to cite material meeting WP:MEDRS criteria, and I very much doubt that such sources exist. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:07, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

”In God we trust. All others must bring data.” In this case data means WP:MEDRS, that blog post is not even medical or psychological research.

And, unfortunately for you, the claim that "porn leads to sexual violence" is very easy to debunk with a modus tollens. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kühn S, Gallinat J. Brain structure and functional connectivity associated with pornography consumption: the brain on porn. JAMA Psychiatry. 2014 Jul 1;71(7):827-34. doi: 10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2014.93. PMID: 24871202.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24871202/

can we cite this Jm33746 (talk) 01:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jm33746: It is already WP:CITEd. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: ENGLI-1102-050 Research, Writing, and the Production of Knowledge[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 January 2023 and 19 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Penguinsrcool2023 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Penguinsrcool2023 (talk) 23:27, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: COMM 500 Theory and Literature of Communication[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Raiyaka (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Songbirdsnake.

— Assignment last updated by Songbirdsnake (talk) 19:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts[edit]

1. The section about higher STD rates for sex workers is not contextualized within the article which seems to be mainly about the consumption of pornography and not the impact on producers (sex workers). Challenges faced by sex workers should be more clearly be delineated in the intro if the article is going to discuss it, sex workers are also impacted by societal views on sex workers and pornography and not only the pornography itself.

2. The intro has this sentence: "Consumption of pornographic material is associated with negative and positive impacts"

Where does the article mention the positive effects? If we don't delve into positive effects in the article then we should just remove that sentence.

3. The intro briefly states "some people may become addicted to it" but no context is provided. Some studies suggest that a small percentage of individuals may experience problematic or compulsive patterns of porn consumption that could be classified as an addiction. However, it's important to note that not everyone who consumes porn will develop an addiction, and people can engage in such behavior without negative consequences. Drocj (talk) 08:58, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Edu Assigment: Comm 500 Class , List Of Edits and thoughts[edit]

Hello, I realized that we had to outline the changes we made for the wiki instead of putting it just in the edit review/version history

So here is the comprehensive list of changes that I made to reach the most recent version of this Effects of Pornography article: (FROM TOP TO BOTTOM)

Finalized the Lead to encompass the definition of pornography, along with a breakdown of different effects that are going to be discussed in the article
Next to "associations of addiction", i added the fact that theories are going to be discussed in the article also (last little section was kept)
Added " A Few Key Theories" heading, Sexuality Theory umbrella heading, SEXUAL STRATEGIES THEORY, REWARD AND CONDITIONING THEORY, SOCIAL EXCHANGE THEORY.
Social Exchange Theory Model (Picture) was added to break up reading pace.
some words are changed in Sexual Scripting section to improve flow and clarity ( Last small section of Sexual Scripting was untouched)
Added Scripting Framework Section
METHODOLOGY LIMITATIONS HEADING and its contents were removed, did not make sense as methodologies were not mentioned exclusively
" Added a Psychological Effects and its Studies" Section (FIRST PARAGRAPH THAT MENTIONS ADDICTIONS UNTOUCHED) , might need future revision
Added a specific "studies" heading ( second paragraph was untouched and last paragraph of this section was broken up for clarity)
Added a "Psychological Effects" Image
Added Cognitive Effects heading and a few paragraphs to expand the concept
Split the previous paragraph into its own section of Contradicting Views
added a few meanings to the abbreviations ( Withdrawal Symptoms Untouched)
Added a "pornographic control proposals" section title ( contents untouched)
MENTAL BLOCKS heading added and provided a lead paragraph to introduce the specific section topic
added a man and "masculinity" section heading and provided word clarity in its first paragraph ( second paragraph of this section is untouched, this section might need a little bit more sources, did not have time, added citation 39)
added a "women and self-consciousness" section heading, provided clarity to the second paragraph of the section ( FIRST AND THIRD PARAGRAPH UNTOUCHED)
changed a few words around in the last tiny section of the Women's section
EXPANDED both the Delay Discounting and Dehumanization section
Public health section was NOT my addition ( but did improve wording)
changed up the words and improved the flow of the Sexual desires section (first and last paragraph of section was untouched)
Pamela Anderson Line was removed as I felt it didn't fit with the section at all.
Improved wording in Sexual Function section ( also added citation 49 to back claims)
Improved wording in Sexual Satisfaction section ( last paragraph is untouched, welcome to re-check)
removed redundant wording of the first paragraph in sexual preferences section
improved wording and flow for the other parts of this section, although it is split into two fue to it being a little too long
Added Sexual Preferences Image
Added Aggression and Extreme content section (content basically unchanged aside from simplification of wording)
Sexual violence controlled studies section 1st paragraph rewritten for maximum clarity
Meta analysis paragraph and Emily F Rothman paragraph simplified
The DIAGRAM was NOT my addition, might have to be checked for accuracy.
changed a few words in the Ferguson and Hartley paragraph, 5th paragraph UNTOUCHED
tiny sentence in the 6th Paragraph condensed with the Emily F Rothman Paragraph
Epidemiological studies section only simplified but generally untouched
added a Teen Dating Violence study and expanded into a paragraph
added the white ribbon imagery
"pornography is not the cause of Rape" statement removed , it was a stand alone and did not make sense.
improved wording on First paragraph of Effects of reltionships Heading
also improved wording on the first paragraph of Relationship Satisfaction (Second Paragraph Untouched)
improved flow for the other parts of this section
removed redundant wording in the communications section
added a "pornography mirroring and Consent" Section
added citations 115-119 for the consent section
added the symbol of consent image
Changed the Heading of Occupational safety to " Pornographic effects to adult film performers"
added a famous cases section detailing the adult stars that have exited the industry ( citation 121-123)
added the Pornhub image because it is mentioned in the section.
First paragraph and Block quote of Effects on Adolescence Heading Untouched (further research might be needed in the future)
rest of the section have edited words to improve flow

I have been tackling this article for about 2 months for my Wiki Project, I have done all I could in the course of the semester and will probably have some mistakes. I've updated the article with the sources I could find so that they're all backed with some kind of proof. I added pictures as well to break off the text walls for an easier read. I am still a student and will not have perfect judgment as to what is best for the article, but I have done my best to improve it

Thankyou

( should any changes need to be made, please feel free to edit after :) ) Raiyaka (talk) 08:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have taken a look at the large number of additions you made to the article. Unfortunately, most of them are primary source studies. Wikipedia is based upon secondary independent sources, namely books and academic reviews. Primary source studies are problematic because they have not been assessed in the context of the broader scientific literature and are prone to failing replication.

In addition, most of the content you have added is based upon associational studies. Correlation is not causation. An association between poor relationship satisfaction and porn use does not prove that porn reduces relationship satisfaction. It could be that those in unsatisfying relationships are more likely to watch porn.

A lot of this is going to need trimming back. Zenomonoz (talk) 22:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, a WP:RS is WP:CITED that the association between poor relationship satisfaction and porn use only holds for white men (that is: not for women, and not for men of other races). At the Dutch Wikipedia such edit was reverted together with deleting the association claim, because the recorded effect was too small.

Being statistically significant and explaining much of the variation are two very different matters. You could have a result which is thoroughly significant, but only explains a few percents of the variation. I didn't do the math, but my two cents are that the Dutchies aren't far off.

That's the problem with porn research in general: causality cannot be shown, and most of the variation simply does not get explained (measured correlations are from small to modest). tgeorgescu (talk) 02:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think most of this primary source stuff should be trimmed out, we need to replace it with reviews/books. There have been quite a few recently. Zenomonoz (talk) 03:42, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Stone_2019-1] Stone, Lyman (26 June 2019). "Conservative Protestant Men Are Still Resisting Porn". Christianity Today. Carol Stream, Illinois. ISSN 0009-5753. Archived from the original on 27 June 2019. Retrieved 31 July 2021. By contrast, Protestant men today who attend church regularly are basically the only men in America still resisting the cultural norm of regularized pornography use.

[Psychology_Today_2018-2] Brenner, Grant Hilary (19 February 2018). "When Is Porn Use a Problem?". Psychology Today. Retrieved 18 September 2021.

[Ritzenhoff_Hermes_2009_p._102-3] Ritzenhoff, Karen A.; Hermes, Katherine A. (2009). Sex and Sexuality in a Feminist World. EBSCO ebook academic collection. Cambridge Scholars. p. 102. ISBN 978-1-4438-0426-4.

[Grubbs_Perry_Grant_Weinandy_Kraus_p.-4] Grubbs, Joshua B.; Perry, Samuel L.; Grant Weinandy, Jennifer T.; Kraus, Shane W. (19 July 2021). "Porndemic? A Longitudinal Study of Pornography Use Before and During the COVID-19 Pandemic in a Nationally Representative Sample of Americans". Archives of sexual behavior. Springer Science and Business Media LLC. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02077-7. ISSN 0004-0002. PMC 8288831. PMID 34282505. At baseline, 43.4% of participants reported not having viewed pornography in the past year and 38% of participants reported using pornography, on average, at least once per month (59% of men and 21% of women).

[Regnerus_Gordon_Price_pp._873–881-5] Regnerus, Mark; Gordon, David; Price, Joseph (18 December 2015). "Documenting Pornography Use in America: A Comparative Analysis of Methodological Approaches". The Journal of Sex Research. 53 (7). Informa UK Limited: 873–881. doi:10.1080/00224499.2015.1096886. ISSN 0022-4499. If estimates generated from the RIA or NFSS are more valid, then pornography use is—or perhaps has become—a common and frequent experience among men, with just under half of all men using pornography in an average week. It is also not an uncommon or infrequent occurrence for women, with nearly one in five reporting pornography use in the past week.

[Kleinman_2013-6] Kleinman, Alexis (4 May 2013). "Porn Sites Get More Visitors Than Netflix, Amazon And Twitter Combined". HuffPost. Retrieved 18 September 2021. Sources:
Carroll, Jason S.; Padilla-Walker, Laura M.; Nelson, Larry J.; Olson, Chad D.; McNamara Barry, Carolyn; Madsen, Stephanie D. (2008). "Generation XXX". Journal of Adolescent Research. 23 (1). SAGE Publications: 6–30. doi:10.1177/0743558407306348. ISSN 0743-5584.
Blue, Violet (24 July 2009). "Are more women OK with watching porn?". CNN.com. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
"One in three women watch porn - study - The Courier-Mail". news.com.au. 10 February 2010. Archived from the original on 14 February 2010. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

Edelman, Benjamin (1 January 2009). "Markets: Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?" (PDF). Journal of Economic Perspectives. 23 (1). American Economic Association: 209–220. doi:10.1257/jep.23.1.209. ISSN 0895-3309.
"Are the effects of pornography negligible? - UdeMNouvelles". nouvelles.umontreal.ca (in French). 1 December 2009. Archived from the original on 31 January 2013. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130116164054/https://www.google.com/adplanner/static/top1000/

Hotsheet, Political (25 June 2010). "29% Accessed Porn on Work Computers Last Month - CBS News". Wayback Machine. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
Leahy, Michael (2009). Porn @ Work: Exposing the Office's #1 Addiction. Moody Publishers. ISBN 978-1-57567-332-5.

Anthony, Sebastian (4 April 2012). "Just how big are porn sites?". ExtremeTech. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

[7] Carroll, Jason S.; Padilla-Walker, Laura M.; Nelson, Larry J.; Olson, Chad D.; McNamara Barry, Carolyn; Madsen, Stephanie D. (2008). "Generation XXX". Journal of Adolescent Research. 23 (1). SAGE Publications: 6–30. doi:10.1177/0743558407306348. ISSN 0743-5584.
Blue, Violet (24 July 2009). "Are more women OK with watching porn?". CNN.com. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
"One in three women watch porn - study - The Courier-Mail". news.com.au. 10 February 2010. Archived from the original on 14 February 2010. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

[8] Edelman, Benjamin (1 January 2009). "Markets: Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?" (PDF). Journal of Economic Perspectives. 23 (1). American Economic Association: 209–220. doi:10.1257/jep.23.1.209. ISSN 0895-3309.
"Are the effects of pornography negligible? - UdeMNouvelles". nouvelles.umontreal.ca (in French). 1 December 2009. Archived from the original on 31 January 2013. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

[9] ttps://web.archive.org/web/20130116164054/https://www.google.com/adplanner/static/top1000/

[10] Hotsheet, Political (25 June 2010). "29% Accessed Porn on Work Computers Last Month - CBS News". Wayback Machine. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
Leahy, Michael (2009). Porn @ Work: Exposing the Office's #1 Addiction. Moody Publishers. ISBN 978-1-57567-332-5.

[11] Anthony, Sebastian (4 April 2012). "Just how big are porn sites?". ExtremeTech. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

[Buchholz_2019-7] Buchholz, Katharina (2019-02-11). "Infographic: How Much of the Internet Consists of Porn?". Statista Infographics. Retrieved 2022-08-11.

[Goldhill_Goldhill_2016-8] Goldhill, Olivia (7 March 2016). "Porn is like alcohol—whether it's bad for you depends on who you are". Quartz. Retrieved 18 February 2019.

[14] Carroll, Jason S.; Padilla-Walker, Laura M.; Nelson, Larry J.; Olson, Chad D.; McNamara Barry, Carolyn; Madsen, Stephanie D. (2008). "Generation XXX". Journal of Adolescent Research. 23 (1). SAGE Publications: 6–30. doi:10.1177/0743558407306348. ISSN 0743-5584.
Blue, Violet (24 July 2009). "Are more women OK with watching porn?". CNN.com. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
"One in three women watch porn - study - The Courier-Mail". news.com.au. 10 February 2010. Archived from the original on 14 February 2010. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

[15] Edelman, Benjamin (1 January 2009). "Markets: Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?" (PDF). Journal of Economic Perspectives. 23 (1). American Economic Association: 209–220. doi:10.1257/jep.23.1.209. ISSN 0895-3309.
"Are the effects of pornography negligible? - UdeMNouvelles". nouvelles.umontreal.ca (in French). 1 December 2009. Archived from the original on 31 January 2013. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

[16] ttps://web.archive.org/web/20130116164054/https://www.google.com/adplanner/static/top1000/

[17] Hotsheet, Political (25 June 2010). "29% Accessed Porn on Work Computers Last Month - CBS News". Wayback Machine. Retrieved 13 July 2022.
Leahy, Michael (2009). Porn @ Work: Exposing the Office's #1 Addiction. Moody Publishers. ISBN 978-1-57567-332-5.

[18] Anthony, Sebastian (4 April 2012). "Just how big are porn sites?". ExtremeTech. Retrieved 13 July 2022.

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