Talk:Concert film

Movie

Is Demon Days Live not a Concert Movie? 82.25.106.134 22:41, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

And Let It Be?

Also, what about Jazz on A Summer's Day? Jwill602 (talk) 23:34, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

A bit surprised Led Zeppelin's The Song Remains the Same (film) isn't included as an early/notable grossing more than half of the movies listed. But I suppose Led Zeppelin fans are used to being left out :) RTP Rocker (talk) 19:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

"Notable" films in lieu of "Early"

Why the restriction on early concert films? Why not list notable concert films which is what this encyclopedia is about, notability. There are plenty of them, and yes, even after 1984. For example, Yanni Live at the Acropolis is documented to be the 2nd best-selling concert film of all time. That's pretty notable. How about listing "top selling" concert films instead, maybe above a certain number. Thoughts for consensus? ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 20:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think either "best-selling" or "earliest" really provide a good summary of the history of the concert film. For any movement in film (or music, literature, etc.), top selling things are often not the most influential, while early examples are often sufficient to provide an understanding of a genre (i.e.: listing early horror films wouldn't account for modern trends of torture porn or explain the late 70s/early 80s slasher craze). Basically, I think we need strict criteria before creating an arbitrary list of "notable" films. Jwill602 (talk) 23:42, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Merge with Rockumentary

I think the two pages should be merged - seems that there is very little distinction between the two. Is a concert film just a type of rockumentary? Edelmand (talk) 12:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. A concert film is just that, a live concert film. Rockumentary is a documentary about a particular 'rock' band or concert. I think there is a clear distinction. Not all concert films are rock music. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 13:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely agree. They are two different things and therefore should NOT be merged. (mykl6381)

I think there's an important interplay between "rockumentary" and "concert film." One could argue that they be instead broken up by those shot according to the rules of cinema verite or direct cinema, which seems to me to be a more definite distinction than the arbitrary definitions like "rockumentary" and "concert film." Therefore, I think the merger is a good idea. Ideally, the pages should be under something like "music documentary," each getting a special section. Jwill602 (talk) 23:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

I merged the two together since "Rockumentary" is a sub-genre of Concert Film. Also, I made this article a basic overview of its history instead of just a simple list on films since there are so much to list. Yoshiman6464 (talk) 17:14, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

this is it?

shouldn't this is it be on this list? --Ruthless-paki (talk) 23:45, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

It should be at the top of the list, but at least one of the editors on this Talk page and in the article itself managed to convince GWR to use their words verbatim in the online version of its 2023 edition and put Taylor Swift's offering in that position, instead. 72.174.131.123 (talk) 03:27, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

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Unsourced edits

@TheWikiholic: Hi. If you have any concern, use the talk page to raise it instead of removing sourced content or adding unsourced content, or disrupting article stability. Regards ℛonherry☘ 16:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Unsourced? It was cited in the Billboard article. TheWikiholic (talk) 16:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not. Nowhere Billboard claims it's the "highest grossing concert film" in history. ℛonherry☘ 16:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Please show me where Billboard makes that claim, because if you had assumed it is the highest grossing concert film of all time just because Billboard reported the gross, which you found to be a greater integer than other films, then that is your own research and constitutes WP:SYNTH. You cannot make such exceptional claims in a Wikipedia article without supporting it with multiple reliable perennial sources explicitly stating it. ℛonherry☘ 16:46, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

There are multiple independent sources that claim the same, as you can see here. But GWR listed it as the Highest-grossing documentary film at the global box office". TheWikiholic (talk) 17:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

That article does not say that Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour dccumentary is the highest-grossing of all-time. It only states that it is projected to have a large opening that would make it one of te biggest ever (for an opening). Stop being deceptive. NotPeterParker (talk) 20:46, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

This Is It being considered a concert film in itself is contentious as it does not document a concert. Nevertheless, the only official source I see here is Guinness World Records, which ONLY says This Is It is the highest grossing documentary film of all time, not concert film. Whereas, multiple reliable sources label Eras as the highest grossing concert film, surpassing Bieber, who held the previous record. ℛonherry☘ 01:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

So it's the highest grossing documentary film, not concert film. ℛonherry☘ 01:17, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

The doc was about a concert that was performed/rehearsed, therefore, it is a concert film. GWR entered it according to what it was in 2009, a documentary about a concert. It was marketed as a concert film. Still, it made an additional $45 million from home video revenue, which takes it over $300 million, but that was why I added the disclaimer about box office only. Either way, Taylor Swift's movie technically only beat Justin Bieber's. Not tot say that it couldn't eclipse This Is It, but it hasn't; it has about $150 million to go. NotPeterParker (talk) 04:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry but you're attempting to explain what the source "meant" and but I do not see anything you've said here within the source. Are you claiming MUTIPLE perennial sources are simply wrong and you're right? Because Wikipedia can only rely on explicit statements published my reliable sources. To keep This Is It as the "highest grossing concert film" of all time, Wikipedia needs a source explicitly saying "This Is It is the highest grossing concert of all time", but so far, from all the reliable sources cited in the article and this discussion, I can find only "This Is It is the highest grossing documentary film of all time" and nothing else. ℛonherry☘ 04:54, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Either mine or your(s) comprehension skills are lacking. ALL concert films are documentaries. GWR even lists Justin Bieber's flick as a 'documentary' (https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/worldwide/all-movies/genres/documentary), so why then is that still included here? This Is It is a concert film. YouTube classifies it as a concert film AND a documentary (and it wasn't something about icebergs or safaris or sad story about a dysfunctional nation-state). NotPeterParker (talk) 05:01, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

(a) I do not engage in personal attacks, but I believe it is your "comprehension skills" that are "lacking" because all concert films are documentaries but not all documentaries are concert films. The only reliable source we have here for the gross record (GWR) claims This Is It is a documentary, which does not necessarily make it a concert film. Only if something is labeled a concert film first, then it is considered as a documentary as an effect. (b) YouTube is again, not a reliable source. ℛonherry☘ 05:06, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

And I feel like you're trying to argue and not actually present constructive responses as you've simply ignored the fact that Wikipedia can only rely on explicit statements published my reliable sources. No reliable sources explicitly supporting your claim? then No addition the the article. That's how Wikipedia operates. ℛonherry☘ 05:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Official box office numbers aren't even in yet, and you're generalizing what constitutes a documentary vs. concert film. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:13, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm not, the sources are speaking for themselves. Variety and BBC said "the Eras Tour is the highest grossing concert film in history" in their articles and that's exactly what I added, however, on the other hand, no source has claimed "This Is It is the highest grossing concert film of all time" yet you're attempting to add that factoid to the article. Simple as that. Who is following Wikipedia guidelines and who is not following them is quite clear. If this is going to going in circles, I'm more than ready to initiate a Rfc and see what other editors unrelated to this article think. ℛonherry☘ 05:17, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Your references spefifcally state that presales for The Eras Tour movie is generating enough business to out-do Justin Bieber's film. Nothing more. Quit being deceptive. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:20, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

False.

Quoting Variety - "The movie has already made $100 million in advance ticket sales. That makes it the highest-grossing concert film ever, surpassing Justin Bieber's "Never Say Never" ($99 million)."

Quoting BBC - "Its distributor AMC says global advance ticket sales have topped $100m (£82m), adding demand "has been incredible from the moment it was first announced [...] That makes it the most profitable concert film in history." ℛonherry☘ 05:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Besides, by itself, This Is It is not the top-grossing doccumentary film, either. NotPeterParker (talk) 04:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

And your source is? Because GWR claims otherwise. ℛonherry☘ 04:55, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

That should read Taylor Swift: The Ear's Tour. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:03, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it should. GWR does not update records instantaneously like media publications. It is a book, not a news outlet. ℛonherry☘ 05:13, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Also, do not edit the subject of the talk topic while the discussion is happening. As per WP:EDITWAR, the original version is the last stable version backed by sources and free of contentious claims. Now, moving onto the image of This Is It poster you attempted to added, that constitutes a copyright violation. Non-free artworks or posters of movies, albums, and other releases whose copyright has not expired SHALL NOT be used in any of the articles other than the main article of that work. ℛonherry☘ 05:02, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

That's taken directly from the This Is It article page. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:03, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus have concert films that are both on the list of doccumentaries: https://moneyinc.com/top-grossing-documentaries/ yet are included in the article. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:09, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and? They are concert films, which in turn makes them documentaries. All documentaries are not concert films. Should I have to explain this simply concept using a Venn diagram? ℛonherry☘ 05:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

You're childish. The reference labels the aforementioned flicks as 'documentaries', but your argument is that This Is It shouldn't be included on the same list because it is a documentary. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

That's your second personal attack on me by the way. Please remember I'm bookmarking these personal comments to present it to admins when required. Coming to the topic, no, my only argument is that "stick to sources and don't add what's not there in the source". Regards. ℛonherry☘ 05:20, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

The very best way to resolve this is to wait until the final box office numbers are out and then adjust the list accordingly. As was said before, if home video sales were included, then This Is It could add an additional $45 million to its haul, and still be #1. NotPeterParker (talk) 05:17, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I do not know or care about video sales or whatever. It has nothing to do with theatrical grosses or ticket sales. I will, as all Wikipedia editors should, only be taking the words of explicit statements from reliable sources when the weekly box office numbers are out in a few days, but the point right now is Eras already earned 100M in pre-sales, surpassing the full run of previous record holder (Bieber, 99M) already, as per multiple sources. And do not disrupt the article. Regards ℛonherry☘ 05:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

2 things

1) since when is Floyd Mayweather vs. Conor McGregor considered a concert film (citatons, please)? It reads that that 2017 fight raked in more than $3 million (I'm guessing at a public theater) in addition to its pay-per-view. That looks like the editor was desperately trying to fit '50' titles in the entry boxes, especially since there are no other sections that read "Sports" like there are for "Stand-up comedy" or "Music".

2) where is the Beyonce concert movie that opened in December 2023? It grossed more than $21 million in its opening weekend, which should put it in the top-10, maybe top-5 after just 10 days. 72.174.131.123 (talk) 03:35, 16 December 2023 (UTC)