Talk:Climate Pledge Arena

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Image[edit]

I think the current image is better than the one that was previously in there (and which I removed) because: 1) It's centered right in the front of the arena, 2) It's up close, and 3) there are no other objects like cars or people in it. These are the two pics in question, the one I inserted is on the left. Feel free to comment. Quadzilla99 12:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Key Arena
Key Arena

Fair use rationale for Image:KeyArena logo.png[edit]

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Seattle University Redhawks[edit]

Anonymous user 66.194.72.243 added to Key Arena that the Seattle University Redhawks willing using the venue as of 2008. I have not found a reference for it. Can anyone verify or deny that? Flibirigit (talk) 20:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

During the 2008 season the mens program played one game at the KeyArena, against Loyola Marymont.

http://www.goseattleu.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18200&KEY=&SPID=10773&SPSID=89893 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.247.53.230 (talk) 18:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No Way Out (2009)[edit]

No Way Out (2009) took place on February 15, 2009 at the KeyArena in Seattle, Washington. KingRaven (>$.$)> (talk) 06:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The fact of this event isn't disputed but it is irrelevant in the long term. WP:RECENTISMEmjaymem (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:31, 9 October 2009 (UTC).[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Closed During Proposed Redevelopment?[edit]

This may be a dumb question, but would the arena be closed during the proposed redevelopment to accomodate an expansion NHL team in 2020 (and possibly a relocated or expansion NBA team as well)? Also, is there a set time yet for when the reconstruction begins? Timothy Horrigan (talk) 16:12, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 December 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Malformed request. Calidum 04:36, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

KeyArena → Seattle Center Arena – date:December 2018 SportsFan007 (talk) 20:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 5 December 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved at this time, per the discussion below. If and when usage changes, it may be worth revisiting this issue. Dekimasuよ! 06:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

KeyArena → Seattle Center Arena – This is a contested request.[1] Apparently with the recent announcement that the new Seattle NHL team will be set to play in a few years, this arena is being renamed as "Seattle Center Arena" (the arena's official website has even been updated as such to point to a new name, http://newarenaatseattlecenter.com/) But as of now, this article has yet to be updated with any content related to this new name, much less news sources for WP:COMMONAME purposes. The other issue is that the Seattle Center Arena redirect use to point to Mercer Arena.[2] So the question now, should the page be moved or keep the disambiguation page for now. I am neutral in this discussion. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. The Seattle Times is still calling it KeyArena, even after the NHL approved the expansion [3]. Calidum 12:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The recent change from a redirect (to Mercer Arena) to a DAB page broke 30+ links which will have to be fixed by hand. That shows the nature of the problem which defining a new WP:PTOPIC could cause. Those broken links can be found and fixed; bad links to PTOPICs are unlikely ever to be. Narky Blert (talk) 09:48, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Your proposal is totally wrong. Evangp (talk) 11:19, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. While I think moving the page is probably correct on an "official name" level, the arena is going to be colloquially known as KeyArena until naming rights are sold to somebody new. Given that it probably won't be too long before a naming rights deal (certainly not longer than a three years) and that the page will have to be renamed again at that point, it seems like a waste of resources to go all-in on the placeholder Seattle Center Arena name. The DAB page gets readers to where they want to be for now. -- Aricci526 16:15, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. The arena is being reconstructed and nothing will happen there until the work is done. Additionally, the Seattle NHL team is scheduled to start playing in 2021, but anything can happen and this team might not even play at all. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:18, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Support It’s no longer operating as KeyArena and the name change is still happing even if the NHL team doesn’t end up playing there. SportsFan007 (talk) 10:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)SportsFan007[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 6 April 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 15:58, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]


KeyArena → New Arena at Seattle Center – Seattle NHL team is approved, arena name can change now. SportsFan007 (talk) 15:19, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Sources still call it KeyArena. [4] [5] [6] [7]. Nothing has changed since the last RM above. Calidum 18:05, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • the team’s website call it New Arena at Seattle Center [8]. SportsFan007 (talk) 18:11, 6 April 2019 (UTC)SportsFan007[reply]
      • First, we use common names, not official ones. Second, "New Arena at Seattle Center" is likely a descriptive name the team is using until an official name is chosen. Calidum 18:17, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Calidum: We actually do use office names when available. SportsFan007 (talk) 22:45, 6 April 2019 (UTC)SportsFan007[reply]
          • Not if there is a more common name. That is the whole point of common name. -DJSasso (talk) 16:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Local media still refers to it as KeyArena or Seattle Center Arena, which is a more accurate descriptor if we were to move the page. SounderBruce 21:45, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Seattle Center Arena. It's the more obviously non-descriptive form of the name. ONR (talk) 00:44, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose No evidence this is a new WP:COMMONNAME. "New Arena" is likely just a placeholder name that is also miscapitalized.—Bagumba (talk) 09:45, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 12:10, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Still very much the common name. -DJSasso (talk) 16:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

National Register of Historic Places infobox[edit]

I added the NRHP infobox as a separate piece. It would IMO be an improvement if someone wanted to merge the Seattle City Landmark and NRHP info using the NRHP template, but I can't quite figure out how to do it. Halmueller (talk) 08:38, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I already integrated both of them. I also put the NRHP infobox in the arena infobox as well since that's the standard on virtually all American stadium/arena articles with historic status. SmartAn01 (talk) 07:34, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 March 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 18:31, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

KeyArena → New Arena at Seattle Center – This is what the Arena is currently known as. SportsFan007 (talk) 17:42, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Though I supported the last move request, I acknowledge we're hitting a common-name wall at the moment. O.N.R. (talk) 00:45, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Local media articles still refer to KeyArena, which remains a common name despite the expiration. I'd rather wait until the naming rights are officially announced rather than have an intermediate move to a temporary name. SounderBruce 00:57, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@SounderBruce: the arena doesn’t operate as KeyArena anymore. SportsFan007 (talk) 01:31, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGES still apply even if it is defunct. Looking around at articles written in the past month or so, "KeyArena" is used by The Seattle Times and KCPQ-TV, Seattle Center Arena is used by KOMO-TV, and New Arena is used by KING-TV and KIRO-TV. Given that The Times is the newspaper of record and that, anecdotally, most locals still call it KeyArena, we should favor the old name until a permanent one is announced. SounderBruce 03:17, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 07:48, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per COMMONNAME. KeyArena is still referenced in Google News slightly more (or at worst as much) as New Arena at Seattle Center.—Bagumba (talk) 10:58, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 12:31, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - we should not use sponsored names for arenas (and that is standard at WP:FOOTBALL). GiantSnowman 12:33, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is not the case for American stadiums, where sponsored names are the default and most widely used. Also, this discussion is not particularly relevant to WikiProject Football, as the venue was only used by an indoor soccer team for two seasons and is unlikely to host it again. SounderBruce 15:36, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • American arenas and stadiums follow WP:COMMONNAME, whether or not that is the sponsored name.—Bagumba (talk) 08:16, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Aside from the above comments, 1) The proposed title seems inaccurate, since the arena is not new – it opened in 1995; 2) Furthermore, if I understand correctly, the arena has never operated under that name and will probably never operate under that name in the future – it is currently just a construction site; and 3) As far as I can tell, no sources have been identified as saying that the proposed name is preferred over the previous name, and the KING and KIRO sources cited above primarily use "the new Arena at Seattle Center" or "new arena at Seattle Center" – including in headlines, with lowercase 'n', not uppercase 'N' and sometimes even with lowercase 'a', so they are using "new" as a descriptive term, not as part of a proper noun name, at least in most places. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:44, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per reasons above, mainly the fact that "New Arena at Seattle Center" is clearly a placeholder title. JE98 (talk) 00:52, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – As stated, "New Arena at Seattle Center" is a temporary/project name. "KeyArena" is still the colloquial name of the arena; from my experience, most locals still call it that, even when compared to its previous name as the "[Seattle Center] Coliseum". SmartAn01 (talk) 06:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Terminology[edit]

In the "Relocation ..." section, do we know what the acronym "PBC" refers to? It is not previously identified in the article, and is not a common knowledge one for me. SquashEngineer (talk) 13:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SquashEngineer: It was hidden in an easter egg. I've unhidden it so Professional Basketball Club LLC is now visible. - BilCat (talk) 16:45, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 June 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. (closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 00:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

KeyArena → Climate Pledge Arena – The arena has a new naming rights deal with Amazon who has branded the arena as Climate Pledge Arena. User:Mo2010 (talk) 22:15, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agree: When arenas change names due to naming rights deals, we always move the article to the new name. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 01:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nurseguy55ster2: This user looks like a sockpuppet due to meatstacking, they created their account today only to vote in this discussion. Highly suspicious, I would disregard this users' comment. Andrew nyr (talk, contribs) 02:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Should this vote by an SPA be struck out now? LSGH (talk) (contributions) 09:26, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: I still think that WP:COMMONNAME is pretty clear, until it is not well known as Key Arena it shouldn't be changed. Just because something changes their name doesn't mean the Wikipedia article must immediately change their name. Everybody in the US still knows this arena by the Common Name, Key Arena. I see a lot of people in this discussion are new to Wikipedia, and I would invite you to read WP:CommonName before fully voicing your opinion on here. I would also like to point out the fact that above user, Nurseguy55ster2 created their account today and their only edit is to this page, looks like a sock. Thanks, Andrew nyr (talk, contribs) 01:57, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: I concur with Andrew that it's a bit premature to rename the article at this moment, considering the new name for the arena isn't even a day old yet. Once/if more reliable sources begin to refer to it as Climate Pledge Arena, then we should look into renaming this article. For now, though, let's keep the article's name the way it is. Raptormimus456 (talk) 03:31, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree: I agree with MAINEiac4434. Sports venues that have name changes often get their pages moved the same day.  Broncos Stadium at Mile High moved to Empower Field at Mile High on 9/4/2019, the same day the naming rights were announced.  Other examples of sports venues moving the same day include Safeco Field to T-Mobile Park on 12/30/2018, AT&T Park to Oracle Park on 1/9/2019, University of Phoenix Stadium to State Farm Stadium on 9/4/2018.  WP:COMMONNAME guidelines address topics that have multiple names, such as an official, legal, or technical name, as well as what people commonly call it. KeyArena versus Climate Pledge Arena is not a multiple name issue. The building's name is the one and only name; there are no multiples. Perhaps the most comparative case could be when the Sears Tower, a colloquial name, was renamed the Willis Tower on July 16, 2009. The page moved within 24 hours. In summary, I support moving the page in an expeditious manner. Jdubman (talk) 03:53, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jdubman: Please continue reading WP:COMMONNAME as you completely missed the WP:NAMECHANGES section. While you mentioned speedily moving articles in the past with name changes, they did not conform to WP:NAMECHANGES either. You can't just blatantly ignore official Wikipedia policy just because some articles in the past have. Andrew nyr (talk, contribs) 04:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Per Jdubman's examples. Stadium and arena articles with name changes are generally moved immediately/within a few days, at least for those in the US and Canada. - BilCat (talk) 04:03, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable sources? Take your pick:[10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16]. As what Jdubman said, Broncos Stadium at Mile High had no sponsor for 2 years, but they never took down the signage. KeyBank stopped sponsoring the arena years ago. My point being, no teams/cities/stadium authorities wants to pay to take down the signs until a new deal has been reached because it costs money to take down signage. We have a new deal here. Roberto221 (talk) 08:35, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The lead appears to have been modified already. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 09:26, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. While we usually move the page when a name change occurs, but in this case it is tricky since the arena will not be open until 2021 and who knows what might happen until then. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:51, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't feel as if the opening date should play into this at all. Many to-be-opened sports venues have their naming rights sold long before their opening date. Recent examples include SoFi Stadium and Allegiant Stadium which were named in September 2019, roughly 12 months before their anticipated openings this fall. Levi's Stadium and U.S. Bank Stadium were also named about a year before their opening. And then you have Chase Center, which was named in January 2016, 3 1/2 years before it opened. As far as what might be in the cards over the next 12 months, I highly doubt that Amazon, with as high of a market cap as high as they have, would pull out of a naming rights deal in their hometown of Seattle over the COVID-19 recession. It's not like they are in any danger of going bankrupt. Jdubman (talk) 01:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support There's an official announcement, I don't see any reason not to change it. Richiekim (talk) 16:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the opposition is unavailing and crystal ball-y. I'd also like to give a WP:TROUT to whomever forced this unnecessary discussion. Calidum 17:17, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I'm from Germany – just heard the news and learned about the name change. Didn't know the arena and its old name – as a result I was very much confused that the article still has the old name. PassioEtDesiderium (talk) 18:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree: As official announcement has alredy been released and new name is in use on their website I don't see reason to use old name. -OneMember (Talk) 22:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree: as their website has updated the name [17] Methyllithium (talk) 05:23, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the move, as climate pledge arena is the current name of the stadium and it wouldn't make sense to keep the old name of the facility. additionally per talk, as someone who's lived in seattle i'll cotinue to know it as keyarena for years to come, just to the iconagraphy behind the name (and i can assume many other Seattleite will as well), so i don't see how it reasonable to keep the old name for an unpredictable amount of time. Epluribusunumyall (talk) 06:04, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 09:19, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with you 100%. Similar to how many people still refer to the Willis Tower as the Sears Tower, the colloquialism is understood. But the Wikipedia article is still Willis Tower, it's official name. In Denver, people still refer to Empower Field at Mile High as Mile High, which alludes to its predecessor stadium that was on the same site, Mile High Stadium. Some people culturally refuse to refer to the stadium by it's corporate name.[18] Nonetheless, the article's title is still the stadium's official name. Jdubman (talk) 13:56, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - from a soccer perspective we do not use sponsored names. From a WP:COMMONSENSE perspective we should not use sponsored names because they change frequently. See also comments at numerous other RMs on this page. GiantSnowman 09:23, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Climate Pledge Arena is not a football or soccer stadium though. And in the United States, sponsored names are the norm, even for soccer. A majority of the stadiums in Major League Soccer have corporately sponsored names, as seen on List of Major League Soccer stadiums.  Also, because sponsored names are the norm for a majority of sports venues in the US, these venues literally do not have any other name to go by. Their sponsored names are their official names.    Jdubman (talk) 13:45, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The previous move discussions were all about moving the article to an unofficial placeholder name, not an official new name. "Climate Pledge Arena" may be an awkward name, but it is official. (And for a company to spend money, and not include its own name, is quite stupid on its part.) - BilCat (talk) 21:58, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Though not unheard of. There are two examples I can think of off the top of my head, although both involve significant extenuating circumstances. Friends Arena in Stockholm was originally Swedbank Arena, but the bank donated its naming rights to the Friends Foundation, an anti-bullying organization it heavily supports. The University of Kentucky's baseball park is Kentucky Proud Park, but the naming rights aren't held by the Kentucky Department of Agriculture, which uses "Kentucky Proud" for its "buy local" initiative. The rights holder is the Kentucky Farm Bureau, which is a non-governmental company that lobbies for the interests of Kentucky farmers, and more notably sells insurance to both farmers and the non-farming public. — Dale Arnett (talk) 06:25, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jdubman (talk) 14:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As for any future naming-rights changes, once its has been officially announced by the teams/leagues/sports authorities, and there are "reliable sources", the page should be moved that day. There are plenty of examples out there where it happened in Wikipedia. I still don't understand why we are going thru this crazy BS. Roberto221 (talk) 21:14, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was moved 3 times by two users the day of the announcement, and reverted 3 times by 1 user (move warring), who insisted on a discussion first. The arena is far from being completed, so there's no reason not to let this discussion run its course. Even if the move fails, by the time the arena opens, the new name should in unambiguous common use. - BilCat (talk) 21:50, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know. That's why I was the first one to support it on this discussion board. Roberto221 (talk) 02:25, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, OK. The way it was asked made it seem like you didn't know. Sometimes we have to follow procedure whether it makes sense or not, as that's often the price of keeping the peace on Wikipedia. There were more drastic measures that could have been taken, but since it's not urgent, we can let it run its course. - BilCat (talk) 04:47, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per many comments, especially those of Jdub. After all, the "Climate Pledge" name is now official. — Dale Arnett (talk) 06:25, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Now that the new name is official, why is that even a question? Tdunsky (talk) 20:40, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment How has this not been moved yet, it's clear the overwhelming consensus is to move the article. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 20:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The usual time for a discussion like this to run is 7 days, which is tomorrow. It'll be over soon. - BilCat (talk) 21:58, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

KeyArena on a separate page[edit]

Climate Pledge Arena is basically an entirely new building built under the old arena's roof structure. I think it would make sense to cover each incarnation in a separate article. This has some precedence on Wikipedia, with Centennial Olympic Stadium/Turner Field/Georgia State Stadium, and Gator Bowl Stadium/TIAA Bank Field, where portions of the old structures were reused for the new ones. - BilCat (talk) 20:28, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: Same base structure. Andrew nyr (talk, contribs) 00:49, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I actually intended this to be an informal conversation, not an official split discussion, hence without a split tag on the article. And to be honest, your response is too vague to be very helpful. - ~ BilCat (talk)
I agree with BilCat here and the two examples he used were what came to mind for me as well. In both cases, portions of the original stadium remained, so definitely precedent in establishing separate articles even when there are connections with actual structural elements like we have with this arena. From a practical standpoint, it would make both articles more manageable, particularly the tenant lists. A non-stadium/arena example of a building using a previous building's structure is the Provo City Center Temple, which uses the outer wall of the Provo Tabernacle. --JonRidinger (talk) 05:15, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The histories for each "stage" of the structure would definitely be long enough to warrant separate articles. SounderBruce 07:00, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this. The building that was KeyArena no longer exists, even if the roof has been repurposed. A similar argument could've been made about the '94-'95 renovation from the Coliseum to KeyArena, but those feel of a piece. All of the KeyArena history doesn't really pertain to Climate Pledge Arena except for the site location. That can be referenced in the article and linked to a KeyArena page for further information. These should be separated. - Playhouse76 (talk) 23:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would prefer to defer to what a majority of independent, third party reliable sources say (not the official web site). If these third party reliable sources say that this was just a "renovation" instead of a "reconfiguration", then we should keep this as a single article. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:44, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    See also my comment on #Tenant list below. tldr: this 2017 Seattle Times article details when it was designated a Seattle historical landmark. The roof was the main feature on why it was designated a historical landmark. The Oak View Group, the current operators of Climate Pledge Arena, want to keep the landmark status because they could get tax credits. Thus this adds to the argument that this was a "renovation" instead of a "reconfiguration". Reliable sources could actually treat the core structure as the roof, not the things built underneath it. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:17, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. The base structure is similar but not entirely the same basically the arena got expanded, upgraded and there is also an addition when you see the renderings Jared L 9999 (talk) 11:59, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tenant list[edit]

To keep the tenant list manageable and easier to read, it's not necessary to break up tenancy years for a team that may have had to leave temporarily due to renovations, like the Sonics did in 1994-95, especially when their tenancy already includes an earlier break. They were still legal tenants, but did not play home games there for a season. Details can be mentioned in the text, which they are in this case. A break would be for teams that formally leave a facility (meaning they terminate a lease or don't renew) and then come back, such as the Sonics after they left the arena in 1978 and came back in 1985, the Oakland Raiders at the Oakland Coliseum, the Golden State Warriors at Oracle Arena, or the Cleveland Indians at Cleveland Stadium. This has actually been discussed in relation to the Toronto Blue Jays and Rogers Centre. The Blue Jays won't be playing games there at all during the 2020 season, but the tenant list shouldn't be "1989-2019, 2021-" since the change is clearly temporary and their legal status as tenants hasn't changed. "Tenant" usually means "plays all home games there" but it sometimes doesn't. Again, details about temporary moves can be explained in the text; the infobox isn't for those kinds of details.

Additionally, "Future" should also be avoided, such as "2021-future". The precedent for future years is just "2021–" and many times "planned" is placed after. Ultimately, my hope is that KeyArena is made into a separate article. Also, the Template:Infobox venue doesn't use parentheses in the explanation for the tenant list. --JonRidinger (talk) 17:07, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree that Key Arena should be made into a seperate article from this one. A good example to look at is Madison Square Garden. Like Climate Pledge/Key Arena, MSG's interior has been completely renovated twice while keeping the outer structure intact, and yet this is all covered in one article. - Richiekim (talk) 12:45, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True, but the MSG renovation didn't result in any disruptions for the Rangers or Knicks since it was done in phases during both teams' offseasons (did for the Liberty, but they have since moved anyway), plus it also didn't result in a change of name. In other words, there was no noted break like we have for KeyArena vs. Climate Pledge Arena. Another huge difference is the basic outer structure, roof, and much of the inner layout remains for MSG; KeyArena was demolished except for the roof above it, similar to the Gator Bowl and TIAA Bank Stadium. Climate Pledge Arena will only have the location and roof in common with KeyArena. Many stadiums and arenas are renovated, but in this case, it seems to be more of a total rebuild than a renovation. From an article perspective, having two separate articles for KeyArea and CPA would make both more manageable, especially the tenant lists. Really, the best example for a total rebuild like CPA that wasn't split into a separate article would be Soldier Field. I think the main reason that hasn't been broken into separate articles is the fact the facility wasn't renamed, but the "renovation" was essentially a total rebuild except for parts of the outer facade. It was extensive enough to get the building delisted from the National Register of Historic Places. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:49, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As I stated in #KeyArena on a separate page above, I would prefer to defer to what a majority of independent, third party reliable sources say. If these third party reliable sources say that this was just a "renovation" instead of a "reconfiguration", then we should keep this as a single article. Unlike Soldier Field, the site here in Seattle is also a local historic landmark designated by the Seattle Landmarks Preservation Board.

Could reliable sources actually treat the core structure as the roof, and not the things built underneath it? I found a 2017 Seattle Times article detailing when KeyArena was designated a Seattle Landmark, and the article's headline emphasizes the "iconic sloped roof". And the first couple of paragraphs state:

KeyArena and its iconic roof have officially been designated for local historical landmark status, meaning any renovation of it must take specific steps to leave certain elements intact ... The board, consisting of architects, historians, a structural engineer and representatives from the fields of urban planning, real estate and finance, granted the designation for both the arena's Paul Thiry-designed roof and its exterior walls and support trusses. (emphasis added)

In other words, it appears that the roof is one of the primary reasons why it was designated as a historic landmark. And who wants to keep the landmark status? The Oak View Group -- the same group that is in charge of Climate Pledge Arena. As the last paragraph in that article notes, the landmark status could give the Oak View Group "up to $70 million in federal tax credits should the building be declared a federal historical landmark". So as long as the roof and its support trusses are intact, and the Oak View Group wants to keep the landmark designation, I doubt there will be a push to delist the arena. Zzyzx11 (talk) 00:58, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of "Concerts" section[edit]

Since the arena was a major concert venue throughout its existence, I feel that a "Concerts" section is warranted for the article; there are already several statements about various concerts at the arena that could be combined into a separate section. Many of them are uncited, but they shouldn't be too hard to find sources for given that most of the mentioned events happened after 1985–86, which is when archives of the Times and P-I start for my local library. The resulting section could be very long, especially if compiled in a table; however, with the discussion on splitting the arena iterations into their own articles, the table could be easily spilt off for their respective arena iterations as well. --SmartAn01 (talk) 00:43, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, FAs and GAs don't include long concert tables as they would violate WP:NOTDIR. I would advise against adding such a table here, as it would easily overwhelm the article as you describe. SounderBruce 05:03, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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