Talk:Central Saint Martins

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Blue Plaque[edit]

Could someone check the date on the photo of the Blue plaque? It is marked 2008, but bears the mark "London County Council" which was dissolved in 1965. 109.78.245.163 (talk) 18:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed the caption to show the date it was placed, 1957. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:21, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alumni[edit]

It strikes me that the alumni list is unweildy and has the potential to get out of hand. I have tagged the section and raised this point on the Talk page to invite discussion as to whether the list should be spun-off into a separate stand-alone article which in turn should be put together in line with WP:Lists. Thoughts? Dick G (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the list is easily accessible (stand-alone article) and informative (detailing each individual's profession/craft and/or position) I agree with this suggestion. Entangle (talk) 10:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I've divided the current list into two columns as I believe implementing a tabled-list would be less desirable (largely to maintain consistency with its associate articles). I'll probably create a category for the college's alumni at a later date, should the list become overly longwinded. I'll leave the tag on the article for a while longer to allow people to suggest otherwise. Entangle (talk) 17:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've spent the last hour or so compiling the category. I'll leave the list as it is with two columns because it took me a while to organize that list alphabetically with each individual's profession or job position assigned and it'll be a shame to remove that. After all, the article isn't particularly large itself. Obviously once the article list becomes too big, I'll focus on placing a larger emphasis on the category. I've removed the tag for now. Entangle (talk) 11:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The CSM website lists past teachers as we

ll as students. I've removed a couple of artists who weren't students at the college. The rest should be checked.--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 09:38, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's going to be difficult to source every student and teacher that's taught at CSM. We're considering easily over one hundred individuals over the course of 150 years. Furthermore, detailed records will expectantly reside with the institution themselves of who studied/taught. The easier solution is to indicate that the 'Alumni' includes 'past' students and teachers. Entangle (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The list of alumni is ridiculously large and has become a list of commercial spam links. I suggest all external links are removed and red links as well.TeapotgeorgeTalk 20:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agree.--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 22:13, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The list is just absurd! It needs trimming to about 20 REALLY notable alumni at the moment it's looking more like a list of everyone on the planet with any vague connection to the college! TeapotgeorgeTalk 16:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Except, they're not vaguely associated with the college, they're all graduates/alumni from the college and are of equal notability in their respective area. I'll agree that the list needs trimming but to decide who is really notable is arguably more absurd. As the primary contributer to this article (and the list in question), I'll attempt to appropriate the list in due course. Entangle (talk) 20:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, I fail to see any 'commercial spam' or 'red links' in the list. If external editor(s) have added individuals of non-nobility previously they have since been removed. Entangle (talk) 20:23, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The list is too long and includes anachronistic inclusions. John Simm, according to his article, graduated from the Drama Centre London in 1992, but the Drama Centre didn't become part of the College until 1999. The list needs to be checked and trimmed.--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 21:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's more appropriate to 'trim' and divide the list into separate institutions (similar to how it's done at the University of the Arts London's Alumni section). I completely agree that the list has become needlessly long and requires attention. However, I don't believe the solution is to 'simply' remove individuals and to decide who's more 'notable', but rather, state their affiliation with the college. Central Saint Martins is the result of continued amalgamations. It's important to realize that whilst the Drama Centre London, for example, joined in 1999, the institution is still very much the same. I acknowledge that the list doesn't make this distinction (as is the case with John Simm) since the drama school is an integral part of Central Saint Martins. Instead of talking about it, I'll enact upon this on Thursday coming, and will trim and divide the list in respect for the college's heritage. The same will apply for the category. Entangle (talk) 08:10, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Firmin[edit]

The illustrator Peter Firmin was teaching at the Central School of Art when Oliver Postgate came looking for an illustrator to produce some backgrounds for an animated television programme. (ref: http://www.dragons-friendly-society.co.uk/peter/pf6.htm) They went on to form Smallfilms and produce such classic animations as Bagpuss, Clangers, Ivor the Engine etc.

I don't know how to incorporate this into the article...!

EdJogg (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral point of view[edit]

Even when sourced, statements such as "widely regarded to be one of the world's leading (...)" are highly unencyclopedic, and don't follow WP:NPOV. I am removing it from the intro. I will leave, though, the reference. Thank you --Karljoos (talk) 20:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Byam Shaw School of Art[edit]

I have removed the recent addition to this section of the article because it wasn't applicable nor relevant to the history of the Byam Shaw School of Art. The information provided seemed more like a current student's personal point of view about the particular course they were undergoing at this school, which is hardly encyclopedic. Entangle (talk) 15:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name of college, title of article[edit]

THe college website at http://www.csm.arts.ac.uk/ only calls the college "Central Saint Martins", with no mention of "... College of Art and Design". Should the article be moved to that name? PamD 23:03, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Central Saint Martins per PamD below and a check of the website as well. -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Central Saint Martins College of Art and Design → Central Saint Martins College of Arts and Design – Central Saint Martins is now known as Central Saint Martins College of Arts and Design and not Central Saint Martins College of Art and Design. This can be confirmed on the University of the Arts London website: http://www.arts.ac.uk/ Kh csm (talk) 10:38, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see where this is confirmed on that site? It seems to call it "Central Saint Martins"?Theroadislong (talk) 10:43, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The main graphic on that page contains links to each college, in which Central Saint Martins is referred to as 'Central Saint Martins College of Arts and Design', however, it is clearer to see it on this page: http://www.arts.ac.uk/about/ Kh csm (talk) 11:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, absent data of WP:RSs using "Arts" name. Note WP:OFFICIALNAME. ENeville (talk) 16:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I wonder whether the WP:COMMONNAME is really just Central Saint Martins? Googling on that phrase, it's pretty rarely followed by the rest of the name. See Vogue and Guardian pieces. But the more the merrier when it comes to redirects - there are already a splendid array of variations on St/Saint/St. Martins/Martin's etc, and it probably makes sense to make sure that each variation is there with both Art and Arts for good measure. PamD 17:18, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

RAE 2001[edit]

A sentence in the article reads "Central Saint Martins was rated in the Research Assessment Exercise in 2001". However, CSM does not show up in the list at RAE 2001: Results by institution. I plan to remove that sentence unless a reference can be found. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem removed[edit]

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search2?coll_id=6247&inst_id=56 and http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search2?coll_id=6248&inst_id=56. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of interest[edit]

A recent editor of this article has an evident professional connection to the topic of the page, and thus has a conflict of interest here. As I am sure you are aware, conflict-of-interest editors are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but are always welcome to propose changes on the talk page (i.e., here). You can attract the attention of other editors by putting {{request edit}} (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) at the beginning of your request, or by clicking the request corrections or suggest content link on the lowest yellow notice above. Requests that are not supported by independent reliable sources are unlikely to be accepted.

Please also note that our Terms of Use state that "you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation." An editor who contributes as part of his or her paid employment is required to disclose that fact. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:13, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Business of Fashion[edit]

I removed a short passage about this new ranking because the editor who added it appears to have a conflict of interest (please see above). I was about to re-add something about it, but then thought: this is a school that's twice won the Queen's Anniversary Award; does it really matter what somebody's website thinks about it? To look at it in the most cynical terms, the owner of the website published the ranking in order to achieve press coverage for himself and his business (apparently with some success). Does CSM really need that sort of accolade? In my opinion it does just nothing to enhance the reputation of the school; but I'm open to discussion of that. Thoughts? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:52, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Citation style[edit]

Someone put a {{citation style}} tag on the article. The citations seem clear enough, what's the problem? However, it would certainly make it easier to edit the page if the citations were all list-defined, grouped in the References section rather than scattered through the text. Would anyone object if I make that change? I'll probably do so in a day or two if no-one minds. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 00:01, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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