Talk:Anabaptism

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Xoloz (talk) 02:10, 7 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Anabaptist → Anabaptists – Baptists is at the plural form. the singular is the term for a person who is an anabaptist. the groups article should conform to naming conventions here. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 16:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 19 August 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 08:33, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anabaptists → Anabaptism – As has been indicated by the bold text in the first sentence of the lead for over a year, this article is not primarily about Anabaptist people(s), but rather is about Anabaptism, their theology and religious tradition (and the history thereof). This usage is in line with all other articles about Protestant denominations (e.g, Lutheranism, Adventism, Methodism, Anglicanism) with only one exception that I know of: Baptists.

That is a unique case as the term Baptism is not generally used (in or outside of Wikipedia) to refer to the Baptists' religious tradition because it is easily confused with the sacramental rite from which they derive their name. The term Anabaptism, however, does not have the same issue, hence its widespread use to refer to the subject of this article. While the word is derived from the Greek ἀναβαπτισμός (ἀνά- meaning "re-" and βαπτισμός meaning "baptism"), in modern English, the term Anabaptism does not normally refer to the practice of believer's baptism (or credobaptism or adult baptism) more generally.

I should also note that this move will bring the name in line with that of the corresponding portal. Graham (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The same can be said of other common isms: ngram. This is just because people are more likely to refer to Anabaptist people and Anabaptist things than the abstract movement. A quick look at the top Google book results for Anabaptist shows that the same books also refer to Anabaptism.--JFH (talk) 17:29, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. So why do we insist on using the "ism" suffix rather than noun? Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:03, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Because the article is primarily about the theological and religious tradition itself rather than about the people who subscribe to the tradition. It's the same reason we have an article about liberalism rather than one about liberals. Similarly, we have separate articles about Judaism and Jews (though of course the latter is an ethnoreligious group rather than a solely religious group). Graham (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say it's a mix of the people vs the tradition and mores. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:44, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Granted there is currently more weight on history in the article than perhaps there ought to be (resulting in it being a little more people-y), but to the extent the article's subject (or that which the article's subject ought to be) is a mix of the two, would that statement not be equally applicable to liberalism? Graham (talk) 21:50, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for consistency. — JFG talk 00:01, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Predating the Reformation[edit]

I would like to see where in the article the idea that was added to the lede is supported. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:43, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anabaptists not Protestants[edit]

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard#Anabaptists not Protestants about whether Anabaptists should be classified as Protestants within Wikipedia articles. I welcome further reviewers. Sondra.kinsey (talk) 12:30, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Judging based off the main beliefs of Anabaptism vs Protestantism, I think it is fair that Anabaptists are their own, separate group. Nonresistance was one of the key beliefs contrary to the protestant reformation. Even going off the lineage diagram, although Anabaptism is based off Protestantism, there is too much uniqueness for the "squares are rectangles but not vice versa" property technicality. A3ec6fYprq (talk) 03:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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Bauernkrieg[edit]

"Thomas Müntzer led the German peasants against the landowners". That statement is nonsense, also the naming "peasants" is misleading. At the core we were not dealing with a "class struggle" (as is the Marxist reading of it), but with some kind of tax rebellion by farmers against the growing and more greedy state sector in the respective parts of Germany.--105.10.152.114 (talk) 16:01, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that analysis. Do you have a suggestion for how it could be changed? Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:07, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Lollardy[edit]

I'm surprised not to see mention of Lollardy here. The Twelve Conclusions of the Lollards affirms Christian pacifism, simple living, as well as many features of the Protestant Reformation that Anabaptists share. Daask (talk) 19:50, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- the major difference between the Lollards and the Anabaptists is that the Anabaptists practiced adult baptism rather than infant baptism while the Lollards did not believe that baptism was necessary for salvation at all. See the article Proto-Protestantism for other groups from before the reformation who held beliefs that would later become associated with Protestantism - Epinoia (talk) 20:16, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image/Timeline/Graphic in the “Origins” Section[edit]

This image/graphic appears to have lost it’s original formatting and consequently does not fit on the page and the resulting image is impossible to view and so is not suitable for publication. Suggestion: convert the original to, for example, PDF format, and edit. Francis Neary (talk) 23:47, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Francis Neary: It fits on my screen, and when I resize my browser so that it's about 1000 pixels wide, it looks OK, but below that, it's a mess. Let me see what I can do to correct the template at {{Christian denomination tree}}. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:40, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I took a look and it appears to be too complicated. I will comment on the template's talk page, but additional comments would help. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:44, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Francis Neary and Walter Görlitz: I tweaked the template; should be good now? -- Beland (talk) 19:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just don't see the connection[edit]

The quote, "True Christian believers are sheep among wolves, sheep for the slaughter… Neither do they use worldly sword or war, since all killing has ceased with them" is cited as reference 16. It's an interesting quote, but I just can't seem to grasp how it relates to the paragraph it currently resides in. Can someone help me see what I'm missing? ~~~~ AWCzarnik (talk) 08:30, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The quote concerns that what is mentioned in the previous sentences about Anabaptists rejecting violence. For example it says "Most Anabaptists adhere to a literal interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5–7, which teaches against hate, killing, violence, taking oaths, participating in use of force or any military actions, and against participation in civil government." This is often called pacifism or nonresistance and has been and still is a core teaching among conservative Anabaptists.
Perhaps reformatting the paragraphs could help place the quote with the previous sentences. Mikeatnip (talk) 15:50, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Summary length[edit]

The initial summary of the content is WAY too long. This should be a paragraph or two. Spiel (talk) 05:04, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation for reversion of spelling, numbers, etc.[edit]

User:Walter Görlitz undid my revision of a few minor corrections to the article. This explains why I have reverted his reversion. Context may be found in the edit history, and on my talk page.
First, the subject of the article, Anabaptism, is not specific to any "national variety of English". The religion may have been founded in areas that are now parts of Switzerland and Germany, but it soon spread all over the world and today (the time-frame in question), by far the largest populations of Anabaptists are not in those areas anymore; they are in the US and Africa. English is very much a minority tongue in Africa, so there is no style manual that can be relied upon to help us with English usage in Africa. It would be as nonsensical as the article in English on Catholicism being expected to conform to the style of English used in Italy, where Catholicism originated. The fact is that this article is written in English and therefore should conform to English style manuals, and in all regional forms of English, numbers are expressed in the full number format I changed it to ("2,130,000") rather than as "2,13 million". English style manuals do allow for the abbreviation of such large numbers, e.g., "2.1 million", but such abbreviations are generally disfavored except in technical usage, and even when used, a period is used to divide whole millions from fractions thereof, never a comma.
Second, "...there would be..." is the conditional passive voice which English style manuals generally eschew. My correction to "...there are..." to refer to something in the present tense is correct in all regional forms of encyclopedic English.
Third, the use of "organisationally" (with the "s") is peculiar to a minority of English speakers (primarily in Britain and Commonwealth countries), and is not a word used by the German and Dutch-speaking Anabaptists of the countries where the religion originated. The number of Anabaptists British/Commonwealth countries today is smaller than the number in the US, so there is no justification for using British/Commonwealth English spellings in this article. Bricology (talk) 21:28, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User:Bricology, you are welcome to make the stylistic corrections to the article that User:Walter Görlitz reverted. However, you reverted to a much older version that has removed a large quantity of referenced information in the article. I am going to restore the previous version and you may make your changes to the number formatting, etc. on this most recent version. In this way, all of the new content that several users from the Wikipedia community have added will not get removed. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 00:07, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Messianic Noahide" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Messianic Noahide has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 23 § Messianic Noahide until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 18:52, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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